The Sibling Spa Experiment: Navigating Type A vs. Type B Partnerships

hey guys sorry about that it's all good oh all good i was like trying to put mute i i said bye

welcome back to type a unhinged the podcast for the architects of order and the masters of chaos

did nicole tell you how we met oh really okay so yeah we're strangers i don't know you guys very

well i met nicole at um the fire and ice ball which is the united way fundraising gala anyway

she ended up getting sat at my table and found out that she knew my cmo at fun.com who i was

reporting to at the time and we have like just so much in common we're very type a and the way we

think about things so we just vibed um and then we asked her to be on our podcast nate and i

thought about doing this for a long time i think it was a moment when we were very sleep deprived

the middle of october because we both work at halloweencostumes.com

yeah i was looking at the site nicole was telling me about it i'm not a type a person actually

okay yeah we actually have had that on our list for a while yeah perfect because i have quite

the story of how i'm the opposite of a type a person tell us

just finished working with my sister for six years on a huge project and she's type a

and opposite types okay yeah yeah so we gotta navigate that for the last actually we've been

navigating that our whole lives so like i think i created a alter ego because i'm from small you

know small town like super humble beginnings really naive

and so i had to create this kind of alter ego you know working my way up to corporate even though

i wasn't actually trying to do that because i was just like enjoying myself i was like oh i'm

working at a cool company there was not a lot of intention involved in my success which um annoys

people sometimes but it was just more like always trying to find the thing that you know is a

dopamine booster for me that's not drugs and alcohol which i think a lot of us entrepreneurs

are doing

you know through my experience and through the last like five years of just trying to figure out

how to burn the boats and how really to just be on my own i'm like oh my gosh like there's all

types we we are we are a crazy group of people entrepreneurs you spent six years with your

sister on a project what project was this can i ask this was the hand and stone massage and facial

spa franchise okay so how did you get started with your sister and how did you get started with your

brother and how did you guys kind of divvy up who worked on on what was it based on personality did

you guys fight over that like what it was let's say this is our biggest faux pas is that we didn't

divide the task and the responsibilities early on um i never planned on leaving corporate right away

i planned on bringing her on as an operating partner she ran the business for two years

i oversight i helped with really that macro okay as being a b type personality i'm great with macro

see 10 you know 15 20 years down the road but my sister's like task oriented you know focus on what

we can do today um doing great at every single task so yeah it's just been it's been a whirlwind

but that's the project that we worked on for six years i introduced him to hand and so in 2020

we purchased in 2021 we opened in 2022 we sold in 2026 wow okay that's a short run too

were there any like big lessons or anything that you learned in doing that with your sister either

in like how to interact type a to type b to type a or a lot of lessons the biggest one is you know

don't force people don't push them too hard out of their comfort zone sometimes you really just

learn their strengths and then figure out how um to navigate that navigate the business once you

figure out the strengths and the weaknesses and the tasks that you want to do so i think with any

endeavor any relationship any big risk that you take you're constantly going okay like I have to

figure out how to work with this person and to make sure my emotional intelligence every day

is at the highest level

learning to not be reactive for sure good advice for anybody no matter what personality type you

are yeah and I think the more that I grow as a person but the more I do develop as a person the

better I'm as a leader did you mention a while ago that your endeavor with your sister you guys

at first did not define ownership of tasks very well yeah we didn't because she you know there's

a defined pathway for the manager I assumed that you know

she would go into that role we didn't really define that not till later I was also out of spa

completely until year two and a half um we ultimately just decided that it wasn't it wasn't

our baby we didn't we weren't completely in love with it it's okay this is something that we did

and it was very positive we built a beautiful business in the community right in a great

community that embraced us uh

25 employees is nothing to scoff at wow yeah yeah that's awesome you know um but it did make me very

motivated to continue on with biz links because I realize there is a gap in the marketplace um

franchising M&A all the finance sectors I'm not the only one to say it I'm not afraid to say it

like it's just it's old school it's outdated

things are happening yes but there's still a lot of work to do there um and kind of what I saw was

that I saw what's happening right now you know like five years ago which was if AI is coming yeah

um there's going to be these big companies that have been around for 40 50 years these

conglomerate companies they can adapt and they will to AI but their entire system has to change

and so they almost have to completely demolish which a lot of companies are doing you're gonna

have to demo this honey and you're gonna have to restart we're changing an entire industry

so Sarah real quick before we get too far into this for our listeners tell us where biz links

is today and where you envision it going in the near future yeah so today it is up

and running has been running for two and a half years the app is still functional so if you want

market your business for sale. You can literally do it for $30 a month by yourself. It happens

within two minutes. And what I'm doing right now is I'm actually working on my offer of consulting,

which is different from the industry as well. My price point is the true differentiator

for my offer, which is $10,000 for 12 months of consulting. And so why I'm doing it that way

is because you can get as much information as possible about selling a business online now.

There are no gatekeepers. I don't live in a scarcity mindset. I believe that education

and knowledge is free to all. And so I'm really giving the information away on my platforms,

but my company will be doing the task of the broker and of the exit firm.

And so instead...

Instead of waiting and wondering if this is the right company to work for or work with

to exit your business, we're actually going to tell you if your company is ready to market

within five minutes of filling out the AI form. Okay. And so what BizLinks does,

and it simplifies, is it matches, verifies, and connects sellers and buyers.

Okay.

Okay. So it's like an MLS for businesses.

I love that.

Yeah. So think of Match.com and Zillow, but for selling businesses all in one.

Okay. Gotcha. A lot more complicated.

I feel like this has to be pretty revolutionary for the industry, as you've said.

What are some of the reactions you've gotten?

I got a lot of hate.

They don't understand what I'm talking about. A lot of people telling me that,

the industry isn't ready. Selling your business should not be so confusing. And it really

should be transparent. Right. And frankly, I went undercover, this is what I do in my

spare time. I went undercover and spent tons of hours. I spent about 30 hours a week working

for an M&A firm for six months.

Wow.

Wow. Okay.

What did you learn?

I should actually do a whole podcast about that.

Yeah.

Give us the highlights.

I don't know. We have way more problems in the industry than I even thought.

You already know all of the major hurdles from selling your franchise.

Correct.

Yeah.

Correct.

There's a lot of backdoor, I'll work with you for six months and then another person gets the deal.

It's not good. There's room for improvement.

You're right.

And there's room for everybody to win.

I love that. And you're also doing it to reduce the cost for the exiting business as well, right?

Yes. So by 90% actually.

Wow.

Wow.

Okay.

How do you actually make that possible? That's a huge number.

Yeah. Really, that's the secret is there's no secret sauce.

Oh, okay.

And I'm helping people do what we've, what the industry has told them that they don't want,

and they are.

That's great.

they can't do so all i'm doing is teaching the the guy how to fish right okay got it i'm actually

providing the tools like here is your fishing pole and here is your your hook okay and then

here's the bait etc and then if you want me to i'll i'll fry up the fish you're gonna pay me

for it and then you could eat it then we could both eat you know what i mean i love the fishing

metaphor it makes perfect sense that's awesome uh the the matchmaking piece the match.com piece

that intrigued me how you're like combining that in so how number one like how did you

come up with that and number two how did you approach building that oh well two decades of

um terrible dating experiences and then understanding the technology of all the

dating apps and i was like oh like this could actually work um

because you know the problem now is yes who where are the buyers and do they have the money

but i'm going deeper than that because what my whole career has been talking to people

and figuring out psychology and connecting etc that's not going to go away the robots

aren't going to take that connection there will eventually be a closer or me on the phone it's

just that we do the 90 90 task before we get introduced to that closer so i have to know

is there like a swiping experience where buyers swipe left or right there will be yes okay

that's so fun everyone will inherently know how to use it too that's perfect yes yes and so right

now the app was made for buyers and sellers um there's a seller dashboard and so you go to the

url and you upload all of your franchising information all of your if you're a seller

all of your business information as much as you want to share right

and so not only did i create this app that's interactive with buyers and sellers

it's actually a mini crm and the buyers are in control so they get a big kind of nod on the

sellers and the sellers get their full profile like a pro profile teaser okay and if the sellers

are interested and they match okay because it's out of a hundred so if you're like a 70

maybe if they match and the seller's interested then i connect then we connect them

okay that's awesome and so there's a personality component to it it's not just

do you have a hundred million dollars sir right um how many franchises do you want to buy it's really

and and i can talk about this personally because the owners that we got to buy our spa

they are existing franchisees okay yeah i was thinking exactly through this like

you've built something and now you're trying to exit but you don't want it to die you don't want

it to get eaten up and transition into something totally different like it's your baby so you want

it to be you want to trust the people you're handing it off to you want because those employees

and that space you built you do have an attachment to it and you do have your reputation tied tied to

it if that stuff matters to you um so it's really about the community and it's like we built this we

put our blood sweat and tears into this we want to make sure the person we're bringing on board isn't

just about money we want to make sure the person we're bringing on board isn't just about money

isn't just about oh i bought it i got a good deal like do you actually care care about this industry

are you the right fit personally like personality wise to run a spa because most people aren't

so in that matching process and of course like all ai technology

excuse me it will get better with time so it'll get better with time and then eventually

the sellers and the buyers are doing all the work by themselves and eventually there doesn't really

have to be too many other people involved very cool so when you started setting this up the

technology what did you how did you approach what you were going to use for infrastructure did are

you an engineer also by trade or were you vibe coding this did you work with somebody i guess

how did that all come to be just winging it um i interviewed type b response but yes i interviewed

probably four software companies

okay and then i ended up picking one and it's it's actually been a pretty good experience

it's been a five-year project since inception so i can do a lot more now which i'm excited about

and then like you know we have these moments of wanting to give up so bad like i had moments

with my investor and i was like you know what i don't know i just i don't know if i can keep

doing this i i definitely need a marketing partner i ran out of marketing funds you know i spent a

ton of money on dumb stuff but you live and you learn and you look back and i'm like dang i'm so

happy i launched it because i would have been starting completely from scratch well and there's

clearly a need and it's personal to you so it makes sense i'm glad you continued you talked

about you know wanting to potentially give up when you're hitting these roadblocks even just starting

i feel like can can be overwhelming right and you have this big idea and you're like i i want to do

it but also took us a year to start our podcast and and it was low stakes we're not leaving

something to do it right we're doing it on the side so what would you say to folks who are

terrified to make that move i you brought up the phrase burn the bridges before which i have heard

that i cannot remember burn the boats burn the boat or both yeah sorry not the bridge

so what would you say to somebody who's like in that situation right

now making that decision i love that question um a lot of what the content that i was creating in

the last two and a half years if i go back and look at my podcast and i go back and look at even

like the pr stuff that i wrote i'm like oh like i was motivating myself to keep going oh and to not

stop and if you go back and watch some of my podcast stuff it's all like don't stop just take

the first step just take the first step

because i was like telling myself through like you know uh my subconscious like just do one task a

day do two tasks a day like do something sarah so that's the advice is like i literally have a three

a three point list i only put three tasks on my list and that's the been the biggest game game

changer for my adhd brain or hyperactive brain whatever you want to call it i have to simplify

everything so

and if i don't put this is the best if i don't put three things on the board nothing gets done

it's a zero it's a zero day i will say always the hardest thing on the top so you know you

guys have heard this the eat the frog so full circle it goes back to your looking for that

dopamine boost that's not drugs or alcohol i think you're more type a than you think you are sarah

my thoughts are everywhere all the time but if i

can go again if i can go oh i got this hard task to do and set aside an hour then i will complete

that task that's another thing too is like do not give yourself two hours to do anything because

you'll never do it because our brains are like two hours of committed time i i can't do it oh i can

relate to that two hours it's better to have a whole i had a whole episode about time chunking

and using pomodoro timers

before no but i get the concept because i do it do you know who got us on these

nicole

love them by the way a little random but going back to a previous topic a tiny bit

being someone who's experienced selling their franchise what i guess are there any like boring

metrics or kpis or really boring aspects of the business that you think others should keep on the

their desk and keep an eye on to make sure that they're they're sell ready come time oh yes i can

simplify it so much so the biggest thing it's going to be very hard to sell a business if you're

still working the business 90 of the time if that business is 90 percent rely you know reliable on

you is that right yeah anyways you're not going to be able to sell it and the number one kpi

is sde so sde so seller discretionary earnings if that's at zero and you're truly not bringing

anything home bringing any bacon home right most people aren't going to want to buy your business

unless and it's not it's not like a hundred percent okay but most savvy investors who are

getting out of corporate do not want a startup they could just go and do something on their own

to build the revenue and if anybody listens to this i just save you hundreds and hundreds of

do not buy a franchise if somebody tells you that the return on investment right is

margins are below typically below 15 because there's not going to be anything left over for

you to take home you might have a franchise that's making two or is top line you know 2.5

million but that's

that doesn't mean your business is worth 2.5 million and that's the biggest mistake

makes sense so sde and making sure your business can run on its own

yes nobody wants to buy a human nobody really wants to buy somebody they don't have to depend

on they want the business to be running by itself without an owner so and then there's this really

weird time in this when you're selling a business where you sign up for a business and you're not

an nda and you can't tell anyone anything yep and so my sister and i have been living in limbo for

six months trying to pretend to run the business like we're scaling it like we used to um it's hard

yep and so we i also provide that type of consulting and so it's post-purchase consulting

so once the deal closes and you want me to come in and help you transition we can do that as well

oh nice okay that i feel like that's the tough part too it's so hard yeah and a lot of times

you know my sister ended ended up brokering the deal for us um and it's it's kind of

emotional it's hard to detach and i don't think it's a good idea for buyers and sellers to

actually get to the finish line together i do believe that that there there is a huge value

in that

intermediate person but not necessarily again for the whole process so simplify the process

but you still do need a mentor to help the buyer and the sellers and i think that i think you'll

need that for a long time yeah that makes sense all all of the emotions of letting go and somebody

else wanting to put their stamp on it and yeah yeah so maybe there's a new an entire new industry

or maybe there's a new role which is a

exit mentor for a post-closing that makes a lot of sense i don't know if that exists but i'm gonna

do it invented i said yeah i love that i do have one more um when we were getting to know each

other at first you talked about some of your motivation for starting biz links and working

with your sister was exiting corporate life and i just wanted to ask if there was or like

from your perspective what was the most unhinged thing about corporate life and what was the most

corporate life you were trying to get away from you know whether it be the meetings the hierarchies

just curious what what that was for you and how do you either envision yourself eliminating that

with biz links or have you already eliminated with biz links yeah i mean i think the politics

and the patriarchy uh and again i look back you kind of it's kind of fun to look back at your

content and i was very much like i had two companies bizella and biz links and bizella

is more of like you know

women power and biz links is a is a company that's changing an industry um but yeah i mean

i don't think i guess the biggest lesson too is nothing's perfect and the grass isn't always

greener and there's pros and cons to every environment and every scenario and like i

thought that hand in stone was the perfect business i studied it you know franchising

for 15 years i thought it was the perfect business and i thought it was the perfect business

it was the end and i'll be all for me and it was going to be my final you know show yeah um but

it's not and now i'm starting an entire new endeavor so i think just staying open and realizing

like nothing's perfect and you have to find your happiness in whatever craziness and project you're

doing because you know you can lose yourself in it love that thanks so much really appreciate your

time today sarah it's great getting to know you

talk to you guys anytime awesome yeah come on my podcast too tell me your stories i love it i want

to hear more about bizella too yeah it's on youtube so i started it on spotify um i still

have some episodes on spotify but i do use youtube for that it's kind of my favorite platform it's

happening awesome