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hey guys sorry about that it's all good oh all good i was like trying to put mute i i said bye

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welcome back to type a unhinged the podcast for the architects of order and the masters of chaos

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did nicole tell you how we met oh really okay so yeah we're strangers i don't know you guys very

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well i met nicole at um the fire and ice ball which is the united way fundraising gala anyway

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she ended up getting sat at my table and found out that she knew my cmo at fun.com who i was

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reporting to at the time and we have like just so much in common we're very type a and the way we

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think about things so we just vibed um and then we asked her to be on our podcast nate and i

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thought about doing this for a long time i think it was a moment when we were very sleep deprived

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the middle of october because we both work at halloweencostumes.com

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yeah i was looking at the site nicole was telling me about it i'm not a type a person actually

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okay yeah we actually have had that on our list for a while yeah perfect because i have quite

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the story of how i'm the opposite of a type a person tell us

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just finished working with my sister for six years on a huge project and she's type a

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and opposite types okay yeah yeah so we gotta navigate that for the last actually we've been

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navigating that our whole lives so like i think i created a alter ego because i'm from small you

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know small town like super humble beginnings really naive

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and so i had to create this kind of alter ego you know working my way up to corporate even though

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i wasn't actually trying to do that because i was just like enjoying myself i was like oh i'm

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working at a cool company there was not a lot of intention involved in my success which um annoys

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people sometimes but it was just more like always trying to find the thing that you know is a

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dopamine booster for me that's not drugs and alcohol which i think a lot of us entrepreneurs

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are doing

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you know through my experience and through the last like five years of just trying to figure out

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how to burn the boats and how really to just be on my own i'm like oh my gosh like there's all

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types we we are we are a crazy group of people entrepreneurs you spent six years with your

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sister on a project what project was this can i ask this was the hand and stone massage and facial

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spa franchise okay so how did you get started with your sister and how did you get started with your

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brother and how did you guys kind of divvy up who worked on on what was it based on personality did

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you guys fight over that like what it was let's say this is our biggest faux pas is that we didn't

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divide the task and the responsibilities early on um i never planned on leaving corporate right away

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i planned on bringing her on as an operating partner she ran the business for two years

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i oversight i helped with really that macro okay as being a b type personality i'm great with macro

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see 10 you know 15 20 years down the road but my sister's like task oriented you know focus on what

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we can do today um doing great at every single task so yeah it's just been it's been a whirlwind

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but that's the project that we worked on for six years i introduced him to hand and so in 2020

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we purchased in 2021 we opened in 2022 we sold in 2026 wow okay that's a short run too

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were there any like big lessons or anything that you learned in doing that with your sister either

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in like how to interact type a to type b to type a or a lot of lessons the biggest one is you know

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don't force people don't push them too hard out of their comfort zone sometimes you really just

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learn their strengths and then figure out how um to navigate that navigate the business once you

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figure out the strengths and the weaknesses and the tasks that you want to do so i think with any

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endeavor any relationship any big risk that you take you're constantly going okay like I have to

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figure out how to work with this person and to make sure my emotional intelligence every day

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is at the highest level

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learning to not be reactive for sure good advice for anybody no matter what personality type you

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are yeah and I think the more that I grow as a person but the more I do develop as a person the

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better I'm as a leader did you mention a while ago that your endeavor with your sister you guys

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at first did not define ownership of tasks very well yeah we didn't because she you know there's

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a defined pathway for the manager I assumed that you know

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she would go into that role we didn't really define that not till later I was also out of spa

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completely until year two and a half um we ultimately just decided that it wasn't it wasn't

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our baby we didn't we weren't completely in love with it it's okay this is something that we did

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and it was very positive we built a beautiful business in the community right in a great

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community that embraced us uh

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25 employees is nothing to scoff at wow yeah yeah that's awesome you know um but it did make me very

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motivated to continue on with biz links because I realize there is a gap in the marketplace um

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franchising M&A all the finance sectors I'm not the only one to say it I'm not afraid to say it

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like it's just it's old school it's outdated

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things are happening yes but there's still a lot of work to do there um and kind of what I saw was

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that I saw what's happening right now you know like five years ago which was if AI is coming yeah

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um there's going to be these big companies that have been around for 40 50 years these

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conglomerate companies they can adapt and they will to AI but their entire system has to change

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and so they almost have to completely demolish which a lot of companies are doing you're gonna

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have to demo this honey and you're gonna have to restart we're changing an entire industry

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so Sarah real quick before we get too far into this for our listeners tell us where biz links

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is today and where you envision it going in the near future yeah so today it is up

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and running has been running for two and a half years the app is still functional so if you want

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market your business for sale. You can literally do it for $30 a month by yourself. It happens

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within two minutes. And what I'm doing right now is I'm actually working on my offer of consulting,

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which is different from the industry as well. My price point is the true differentiator

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for my offer, which is $10,000 for 12 months of consulting. And so why I'm doing it that way

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is because you can get as much information as possible about selling a business online now.

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There are no gatekeepers. I don't live in a scarcity mindset. I believe that education

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and knowledge is free to all. And so I'm really giving the information away on my platforms,

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but my company will be doing the task of the broker and of the exit firm.

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And so instead...

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Instead of waiting and wondering if this is the right company to work for or work with

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to exit your business, we're actually going to tell you if your company is ready to market

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within five minutes of filling out the AI form. Okay. And so what BizLinks does,

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and it simplifies, is it matches, verifies, and connects sellers and buyers.

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Okay.

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Okay. So it's like an MLS for businesses.

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I love that.

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Yeah. So think of Match.com and Zillow, but for selling businesses all in one.

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Okay. Gotcha. A lot more complicated.

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I feel like this has to be pretty revolutionary for the industry, as you've said.

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What are some of the reactions you've gotten?

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I got a lot of hate.

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They don't understand what I'm talking about. A lot of people telling me that,

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the industry isn't ready. Selling your business should not be so confusing. And it really

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should be transparent. Right. And frankly, I went undercover, this is what I do in my

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spare time. I went undercover and spent tons of hours. I spent about 30 hours a week working

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for an M&A firm for six months.

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Wow.

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Wow. Okay.

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What did you learn?

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I should actually do a whole podcast about that.

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Yeah.

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Give us the highlights.

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I don't know. We have way more problems in the industry than I even thought.

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You already know all of the major hurdles from selling your franchise.

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Correct.

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Yeah.

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Correct.

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There's a lot of backdoor, I'll work with you for six months and then another person gets the deal.

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It's not good. There's room for improvement.

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You're right.

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And there's room for everybody to win.

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I love that. And you're also doing it to reduce the cost for the exiting business as well, right?

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Yes. So by 90% actually.

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Wow.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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How do you actually make that possible? That's a huge number.

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Yeah. Really, that's the secret is there's no secret sauce.

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Oh, okay.

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And I'm helping people do what we've, what the industry has told them that they don't want,

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and they are.

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That's great.

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they can't do so all i'm doing is teaching the the guy how to fish right okay got it i'm actually

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providing the tools like here is your fishing pole and here is your your hook okay and then

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here's the bait etc and then if you want me to i'll i'll fry up the fish you're gonna pay me

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for it and then you could eat it then we could both eat you know what i mean i love the fishing

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metaphor it makes perfect sense that's awesome uh the the matchmaking piece the match.com piece

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that intrigued me how you're like combining that in so how number one like how did you

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come up with that and number two how did you approach building that oh well two decades of

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um terrible dating experiences and then understanding the technology of all the

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dating apps and i was like oh like this could actually work um

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because you know the problem now is yes who where are the buyers and do they have the money

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but i'm going deeper than that because what my whole career has been talking to people

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and figuring out psychology and connecting etc that's not going to go away the robots

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aren't going to take that connection there will eventually be a closer or me on the phone it's

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just that we do the 90 90 task before we get introduced to that closer so i have to know

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is there like a swiping experience where buyers swipe left or right there will be yes okay

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that's so fun everyone will inherently know how to use it too that's perfect yes yes and so right

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now the app was made for buyers and sellers um there's a seller dashboard and so you go to the

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url and you upload all of your franchising information all of your if you're a seller

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all of your business information as much as you want to share right

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and so not only did i create this app that's interactive with buyers and sellers

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it's actually a mini crm and the buyers are in control so they get a big kind of nod on the

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sellers and the sellers get their full profile like a pro profile teaser okay and if the sellers

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are interested and they match okay because it's out of a hundred so if you're like a 70

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maybe if they match and the seller's interested then i connect then we connect them

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okay that's awesome and so there's a personality component to it it's not just

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do you have a hundred million dollars sir right um how many franchises do you want to buy it's really

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and and i can talk about this personally because the owners that we got to buy our spa

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they are existing franchisees okay yeah i was thinking exactly through this like

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you've built something and now you're trying to exit but you don't want it to die you don't want

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it to get eaten up and transition into something totally different like it's your baby so you want

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it to be you want to trust the people you're handing it off to you want because those employees

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and that space you built you do have an attachment to it and you do have your reputation tied tied to

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it if that stuff matters to you um so it's really about the community and it's like we built this we

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put our blood sweat and tears into this we want to make sure the person we're bringing on board isn't

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just about money we want to make sure the person we're bringing on board isn't just about money

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isn't just about oh i bought it i got a good deal like do you actually care care about this industry

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are you the right fit personally like personality wise to run a spa because most people aren't

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so in that matching process and of course like all ai technology

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excuse me it will get better with time so it'll get better with time and then eventually

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the sellers and the buyers are doing all the work by themselves and eventually there doesn't really

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have to be too many other people involved very cool so when you started setting this up the

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technology what did you how did you approach what you were going to use for infrastructure did are

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you an engineer also by trade or were you vibe coding this did you work with somebody i guess

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how did that all come to be just winging it um i interviewed type b response but yes i interviewed

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probably four software companies

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okay and then i ended up picking one and it's it's actually been a pretty good experience

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it's been a five-year project since inception so i can do a lot more now which i'm excited about

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and then like you know we have these moments of wanting to give up so bad like i had moments

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with my investor and i was like you know what i don't know i just i don't know if i can keep

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doing this i i definitely need a marketing partner i ran out of marketing funds you know i spent a

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ton of money on dumb stuff but you live and you learn and you look back and i'm like dang i'm so

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happy i launched it because i would have been starting completely from scratch well and there's

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clearly a need and it's personal to you so it makes sense i'm glad you continued you talked

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about you know wanting to potentially give up when you're hitting these roadblocks even just starting

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i feel like can can be overwhelming right and you have this big idea and you're like i i want to do

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it but also took us a year to start our podcast and and it was low stakes we're not leaving

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something to do it right we're doing it on the side so what would you say to folks who are

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terrified to make that move i you brought up the phrase burn the bridges before which i have heard

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that i cannot remember burn the boats burn the boat or both yeah sorry not the bridge

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so what would you say to somebody who's like in that situation right

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now making that decision i love that question um a lot of what the content that i was creating in

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the last two and a half years if i go back and look at my podcast and i go back and look at even

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like the pr stuff that i wrote i'm like oh like i was motivating myself to keep going oh and to not

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stop and if you go back and watch some of my podcast stuff it's all like don't stop just take

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the first step just take the first step

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because i was like telling myself through like you know uh my subconscious like just do one task a

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day do two tasks a day like do something sarah so that's the advice is like i literally have a three

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a three point list i only put three tasks on my list and that's the been the biggest game game

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changer for my adhd brain or hyperactive brain whatever you want to call it i have to simplify

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everything so

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and if i don't put this is the best if i don't put three things on the board nothing gets done

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it's a zero it's a zero day i will say always the hardest thing on the top so you know you

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guys have heard this the eat the frog so full circle it goes back to your looking for that

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dopamine boost that's not drugs or alcohol i think you're more type a than you think you are sarah

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my thoughts are everywhere all the time but if i

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can go again if i can go oh i got this hard task to do and set aside an hour then i will complete

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that task that's another thing too is like do not give yourself two hours to do anything because

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you'll never do it because our brains are like two hours of committed time i i can't do it oh i can

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relate to that two hours it's better to have a whole i had a whole episode about time chunking

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and using pomodoro timers

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before no but i get the concept because i do it do you know who got us on these

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nicole

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love them by the way a little random but going back to a previous topic a tiny bit

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being someone who's experienced selling their franchise what i guess are there any like boring

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metrics or kpis or really boring aspects of the business that you think others should keep on the

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their desk and keep an eye on to make sure that they're they're sell ready come time oh yes i can

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simplify it so much so the biggest thing it's going to be very hard to sell a business if you're

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still working the business 90 of the time if that business is 90 percent rely you know reliable on

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you is that right yeah anyways you're not going to be able to sell it and the number one kpi

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is sde so sde so seller discretionary earnings if that's at zero and you're truly not bringing

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anything home bringing any bacon home right most people aren't going to want to buy your business

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unless and it's not it's not like a hundred percent okay but most savvy investors who are

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getting out of corporate do not want a startup they could just go and do something on their own

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to build the revenue and if anybody listens to this i just save you hundreds and hundreds of

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do not buy a franchise if somebody tells you that the return on investment right is

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margins are below typically below 15 because there's not going to be anything left over for

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you to take home you might have a franchise that's making two or is top line you know 2.5

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million but that's

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that doesn't mean your business is worth 2.5 million and that's the biggest mistake

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makes sense so sde and making sure your business can run on its own

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yes nobody wants to buy a human nobody really wants to buy somebody they don't have to depend

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on they want the business to be running by itself without an owner so and then there's this really

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weird time in this when you're selling a business where you sign up for a business and you're not

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an nda and you can't tell anyone anything yep and so my sister and i have been living in limbo for

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six months trying to pretend to run the business like we're scaling it like we used to um it's hard

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yep and so we i also provide that type of consulting and so it's post-purchase consulting

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so once the deal closes and you want me to come in and help you transition we can do that as well

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oh nice okay that i feel like that's the tough part too it's so hard yeah and a lot of times

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you know my sister ended ended up brokering the deal for us um and it's it's kind of

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emotional it's hard to detach and i don't think it's a good idea for buyers and sellers to

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actually get to the finish line together i do believe that that there there is a huge value

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in that

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intermediate person but not necessarily again for the whole process so simplify the process

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but you still do need a mentor to help the buyer and the sellers and i think that i think you'll

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need that for a long time yeah that makes sense all all of the emotions of letting go and somebody

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else wanting to put their stamp on it and yeah yeah so maybe there's a new an entire new industry

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or maybe there's a new role which is a

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exit mentor for a post-closing that makes a lot of sense i don't know if that exists but i'm gonna

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do it invented i said yeah i love that i do have one more um when we were getting to know each

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other at first you talked about some of your motivation for starting biz links and working

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with your sister was exiting corporate life and i just wanted to ask if there was or like

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from your perspective what was the most unhinged thing about corporate life and what was the most

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corporate life you were trying to get away from you know whether it be the meetings the hierarchies

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just curious what what that was for you and how do you either envision yourself eliminating that

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with biz links or have you already eliminated with biz links yeah i mean i think the politics

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and the patriarchy uh and again i look back you kind of it's kind of fun to look back at your

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content and i was very much like i had two companies bizella and biz links and bizella

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is more of like you know

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women power and biz links is a is a company that's changing an industry um but yeah i mean

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i don't think i guess the biggest lesson too is nothing's perfect and the grass isn't always

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greener and there's pros and cons to every environment and every scenario and like i

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thought that hand in stone was the perfect business i studied it you know franchising

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for 15 years i thought it was the perfect business and i thought it was the perfect business

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it was the end and i'll be all for me and it was going to be my final you know show yeah um but

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it's not and now i'm starting an entire new endeavor so i think just staying open and realizing

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like nothing's perfect and you have to find your happiness in whatever craziness and project you're

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doing because you know you can lose yourself in it love that thanks so much really appreciate your

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time today sarah it's great getting to know you

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talk to you guys anytime awesome yeah come on my podcast too tell me your stories i love it i want

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to hear more about bizella too yeah it's on youtube so i started it on spotify um i still

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have some episodes on spotify but i do use youtube for that it's kind of my favorite platform it's

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happening awesome