Interview with the "Clown Shoe" COO

okay okay okay you ready manda sure

today on the show we're talking to a woman who has literally started at the bottom and by the

bottom i mean the souls of rented shoes she's been with fun.com for over 15 years and her first gig

back when it was a tiny rental shop was wait for it cleaning the shoes if you've ever smelled a

rental clown shoe uh you know she's earned every bit of success that she has today she eventually

put down the scrub brush and climbed the ladder serving as director of inventory before being

thrown into the deep end of product development despite having zero background in graphic design

manufacturing she figured it out probably through sheer force of will and a lot of coffee

i guess we'll find out what her vice is later now she's our chief operating officer seeing

overseeing both massive warehouses customer service and facilities basically if a box moves

or a light stays on it's because of her and just in case her day job wasn't chaotic enough she

decided to round out her family with five kids having a set of twins who are about to hit their

first birthday

she's the only person we know who can manage global logistics and a double stroller blowout

in the same hour please welcome the coo who keeps us all from falling apart the legendary amanda

welcome amanda wow what an what an introduction thank you well deserved thank you for having me

so we can just dive right into the questions or why don't you maybe tell us a little bit

about yourself first besides what i've put in the intro yeah sure

so i'm amanda let's see i've been here this will be my 19th season in september

that's so wild like whoa where has the time gone um i have five beautiful children i have a hot

husband so he he bought me flowers today so that's been fun um we love to travel i love to cook

we actually have two big trips planned this year we're gonna be taking all five children i'm

nervous about that but

But it'll be okay.

My mom and stepdad are going to join us.

So thank God for grandma and grandpa.

They always are helping.

So, yeah, that's about me.

So 19 years.

I just want to hop in quick and ask, like, what's one of your favorite memories over the time?

There's so many.

I have so many friends here.

Like, it's every day, even today, for Valentine's Day, we're having so much fun just handing out valentines.

Getting presents from each other and just having a good time.

So it's exciting.

Just all the people.

Let's look back 19 years ago.

Any shoe cleaning PTSD?

Looking back at your first day cleaning the rental shoes.

And maybe that wasn't on day one.

But what's the one pair that made you think, I'm either going to quit today or own this company?

So I started, yeah, like cleaning shoes and tuxedos.

So it was mostly, like, prom rentals.

So everyone living their best lives, right?

Like, having the time of their life on Friday and then having to return it on Monday.

We only gave them three days to return.

So it was a very, like, rushed return, you could tell.

So one day opening up the boxes, you always found money or trinkets or condoms or glasses or just random things.

But one time there was a pair of dirty underwear inside, like, stuffed inside of the pant leg.

And that was the moment I was like, uh-uh.

Stuck inside the pant leg?

Yes, yes.

Did you throw it away, like, the whole tuxedo?

Absolutely.

Like, disgusting.

Oh, man.

That was the time I was like, this is not glamorous at all.

From that day forward, I was like, hell to the no on rentals.

I had a personal mission of just trying to eliminate them.

So years later, I succeeded.

Years and years and years.

Years and years.

Way too.

Way too long, unfortunately.

But we finally killed the program, and I was thrilled.

Although, I felt a little guilty and a little sad just because, obviously, that's how the company started.

But sometimes progress is complicated, so.

Who knows?

It could come back.

I hope.

Like, don't will it into existence.

Please.

Please don't.

So when you moved into product development, managing designers and factories,

what was your best, like, fake-it-till-you-make-it moment?

Did you have, like, imposter syndrome when you kind of stepped into that role?

So, honestly, there were so many things I didn't know, and I'm not even going to lie about that.

I had to Google everything, like fabric types, measurement, terminology, embellishments,

just the name of some of the even product garments.

So, but really, I realized the job wasn't about knowing every detail.

It's just asking about the right things.

It's just asking about the right questions and setting clear standards

and just making sure that we're hitting the goals at the end of the day.

So, really, I figured out you don't have to be the expert.

You just have to know how to lead the team.

What a great piece of advice, too.

Like, I'm a big fan of, as a leader, it's really important that you lean on the leaders that know the stuff.

You don't necessarily have to be the expert yourself.

That's why you put people that complement you on your team.

Absolutely.

Yep.

And, I mean, you're a bit type A, I would say, right?

A bit?

Oh, Amanda, would you say you're type A?

Oh, God, 100%.

So, how hard was it for you to not have the skills to, like, go in and fix something that was wrong,

like artwork, or, and just, like, having to trust the experts and still maintain those high standards,

like surrendering that feel of, like, you can't control it?

Yeah.

So, I really never tried to fix their work because, like you said, they're literally the experts.

They've been doing this for a long time.

Instead of I focused on how can I, what can I control, and that was always the process.

So, I literally, I'm like a big, I need to do the process myself and learn from the beginning to the end so I can understand it in my brain.

So, I literally worked with the team members and, like, streamlined their workflow and basically reduced how they got to point B.

So, how do we, how do we make it more efficient?

And that's really what I thrive on.

Just spotting the efficiencies and, again, letting the ventures know.

They're, they're doing perfect.

I just need to help them along the way and kind of fix some of the inefficiencies.

A lot of these people have been here for 10 plus years.

Like, when you've done it so long, it's hard to spot those inefficiencies.

So, when you have a clear perspective coming in, it's just, like, an easy way to help find, find those inefficiencies.

So, you channel that type A energy into, like, focusing on the processes for them and removing obstacles.

Yeah, exactly.

Yep.

Did that, did that take a bit to learn to, like, trust the experts and, like, find where you should insert yourself?

Like, can you, can you walk us through that?

I feel like that's a super common problem of type Aers, especially when you get assigned to a new area of ownership, specifically, where you just want to, like, hop in right now, fix a bunch of stuff.

And, like, that's not usually the right approach, right?

So, I guess, can you walk me through that?

Yeah.

Yeah, you definitely have to learn the team.

And everyone works differently.

So, you literally have to get to know the team members.

What are their strengths?

How can I team up with them and work with their strengths to, to get to the end goal?

So, it's really, it is time consuming, but it always, it always makes sense in the end.

And it always is definitely worth it.

So, yeah.

I love that.

Should we move on to warehouses versus toddler's need?

I'm ready.

Okay.

So, you manage two massive warehouses, and we're talking 300,000 square feet?

And hundreds of employees, thousands, during peak season.

Which is harder, organizing a peak season shipping floor or getting five kids into a car in under 20 minutes?

This one's, unfortunately, super easy to answer.

Getting five kids into a car on time is definitely a lot harder.

All of our, all of my warehouses have SOPs and processes in place, and they already know the drill, right?

Kids have opinions.

Kids have opinions, and give zero Fs.

Sorry, part of my language, but they don't care about timelines.

They don't care.

Ivy, especially, my two-year-old daughter, she's a firecracker.

It's her world.

We just live in it.

So, it's definitely, definitely challenging to get everyone in the car on time.

Have you had to develop any, like, systems?

I mean, you have several young kids, right?

But you have a couple that are old enough to help, too.

So, I'm curious, like, have you developed any, like, triage systems?

Or how do you stay sane?

Especially when you're...

When you're always outnumbered?

I am so thankful.

So, I have a six-month, six-month, two, almost 11, and a 12-year-old.

So, I am so thankful for my older boys.

They help in the morning.

We have a drill.

Get the water bottles ready.

Get your backpacks ready.

Brush your teeth.

Like, we have a timeline.

Everyone knows what to do in the morning.

They're always helping.

I couldn't thank them enough.

And they're always just willing to help, too.

So, we're super, super thankful for...

Plus, my parents, they're incredible.

It's really about having...

Make sure you have the support from your family, too, with this many kids.

So, yeah.

We definitely have a timeline.

We know everyone knows what they're supposed to be doing.

And that's how we get through.

That last bit you said, I could draw that as a parallel to the warehouses, too, though, right?

Like, there's a timeline.

Everybody knows what they need to do.

And, yep.

You just create that system and...

And the backup plan of sending out the bat signal to get the in-laws' help.

Love it.

Exactly.

Yep.

Are we the bat signal, Nate?

Yes, you guys are.

100%.

This last year, especially.

Thank you.

Call back to a former episode.

So, Amanda, now that the twins are turning one, has your type A brain tried to implement

any, like, SOPs or KPIs for the nursery?

Or have you just accepted that?

Or have you just accepted the chaos?

Like, where are you at with that?

So, I like to call it organized chaos.

Let's be real.

But we do definitely have schedules for everything.

But with this many kids, there's so many deviations to the original plans, which honestly kills

me.

But that's just where we're at in life.

You're growing and learning.

Exactly.

The twins, actually, my one big goal with twins, I had to read a lot about twins.

I had no idea what I was doing.

So, I read a lot.

But the one thing was, like...

Make sure they're on the same schedule.

So, thankfully, they're still on the same eating schedule, which is a huge win for the

overnight.

So, we wake up twice instead of four times at night.

So, in this phase of my life, I count that as a luxury.

And so, we're super thankful for that.

But that's about the only thing that has been consistent with schedules.

That's a good tip, though.

If you're having twins and you have a chaotic life, try your hardest to keep them on the

same schedule.

Yeah.

Yes.

And I'm so thankful.

They're easy babies, too, but I don't...

Thank God that they are.

Because Kyle and I both wake up for one of them.

So, we each feed one of them at night.

So, we're both waking up twice at night.

Oh, that's the worst.

It's a good team, though.

I'm thankful for him and the support.

It's got to make it harder during the day.

Because I remember waking up all the time, every three hours, right, for feedings.

And I was just so ornery and zonked, right, in the morning.

And he'd be fresh.

And so, it was like, okay, now it's the handoff and I'm just...

I need a moment.

And you guys don't really get that.

We're really good at identifying when someone's to their breaking point.

But we've identified, like, okay, I am at my breaking point.

Kyle, I'm tagging you in.

Please.

I need to go to the garage and have a breath.

You know, like, we're good at identifying each other to make sure we're not...

We're staying sane.

What do you use to cope in those situations?

And is it the same, like, mechanisms that you use when it's, like, the peak day and

every...

Like, things are breaking and after you fix it and you just need a moment?

Like, is there something that you do?

Not really.

I just literally need 10 minutes to myself and make sure I...

Okay, what's the next step?

I like structure.

I like schedule.

So, making sure that...

Okay, I...

That one was a little bit crazy.

And then just getting back on schedule and making sure.

I know what the next 10 parts of my day are, so...

So, what's your garage when you're at work?

You go to the garage at home.

What do you do?

I can't even shut my door.

I know.

It's all clear.

Everyone can see.

You just, like, face the corner.

Yeah.

Yep.

I put my headphones in and just listen to some music.

Oh, that's nice.

Or I leave for a little bit.

Yeah.

Or I leave for a little bit.

Music.

That's a good one.

I actually...

I love music, but recently I went and did one of those head massage things.

You know, like the water.

That was fantastic.

I recommend for anyone who needs some stress relief.

But she was also like, ma'am, you're very stressed.

I'm like, yes, I have five kids and a lot to do at work.

And she's like, you should come back.

I'm like, I'll be here every month.

So, don't worry.

Nice.

Yeah, you'll have to give me an address and name than that one for sure.

Definitely.

Yes.

So, real quick question.

Like, as the COO, you have KPIs for everything, as you can imagine.

I'm curious, though, like in the mom life, are there any KPIs that you've had to just

like delete and forget about because it stresses you out too much?

Yes.

There's a lot of things.

Like, I have timelines, schedules, literally for everything, right?

So, it's...

Is there anything that you, I guess, tried to schedule out or micromanage that you've

decided to like...

Actually, it's not worth it.

I'm just going to let that...

Like, I can't micromanage that part of...

My two-year-old daughter and anything that she does in life.

I was like, okay, it's time to take away the nookie.

It's time to do potty training.

She's two and a half and neither are done.

So, I am letting her tell me when she's ready.

And it's been working good.

She actually went to the bathroom this morning by herself.

So, like, it's just progress.

And sometimes I do have to let...

Let my guard down and be like, okay, I'm just going to let them happen.

My boys are...

One of my boys are not type A.

So, me and Isaac are very on the same page.

Indy is not.

So, also, again, and same with my husband, I learn to just let them.

And we work around their own personal schedules.

So...

I've definitely had to learn that, too.

My husband is type A, but he's a different type of type A.

He doesn't do schedules and calendars and things.

And just like...

He can't remember.

He tells me to remind him to do something the next day.

And I'm like, put it in your phone.

Like, there's tools and systems.

Not that hard.

But it's like, it's not going to work for him.

I literally texted you, honey.

So...

Put it in your calendar.

Yep.

So, I've had to learn to just like, yeah, let it go.

And then my daughter is...

She calls it organized chaos.

To me, it just looks like chaos.

Her room is always a mess.

And she's like, I know where everything is.

It's fine, Mom.

You know?

That kind of thing.

That's Indy.

That's Indy.

That's so funny.

But she's very particular about things.

So, she's also like that little...

A hundred percent.

That's exactly like Indy.

Gotta let it go and let them do them.

Yep.

Exactly.

What is one thing you think people should stop doing if they actually want to scale their life?

Stop second-guessing yourself.

Honestly, it's literally...

You have a goal.

Say it out loud.

Work hard.

You really push yourself.

You can literally do anything.

I love that.

Having five children and a job like this, it's hard.

I work really hard.

But I definitely don't stop pushing.

The more you say it out loud, the more you believe in yourself, the easier it is to achieve those goals.

Model of the episode.

You can have it all.

You can.

Absolutely.

Even when you ask for four children and you get five.

God has other plans.

So true.

But Amanda, as you know, you have a secret dream of owning an event barn.

It wasn't that long ago you were telling us about it.

Most people see a wedding as a romantic day.

I feel like a COO sees it as a 12-hour logistical sprint.

Again, like you said, high risk but high reward or the opposite.

Do you find yourself...

Are you project managing your kids' birthday parties to the same degree, Gantt charts, measuring out when the pinata comes out?

A hundred percent.

So one day I'll own my own party planning business.

You call me, I'll plan your whole party.

You show up and you leave and I take care of everything, right?

Or any celebration.

So absolutely.

So even till this day, I make a party for anything.

There's a timeline for arrival.

There's timelines for games.

There's timelines for presents.

There's weather contingencies.

Honestly, I even catch myself at parties I'm not hosting, like mentally noting like, okay, guests are getting bored.

It's time to get the cake.

Let's do the presents.

Like, come on.

I have to actively remind myself, okay, this isn't my party.

I just relax and have fun.

That's definitely a work in progress though.

So, but it's like come up, like everyone enjoys having parties at my house.

So it's a fun thing.

What would you call it?

You know, that's probably part of the reason why I haven't started it, because I don't have a name yet.

I don't know.

I want something with I's.

Obviously, I love I's, but I don't know yet.

That's something I'm working on.

And for the listener, I's is in the letter, not as in the body part.

All of her children are named with I names.

All five of them, which was crazy after the second one, because there's not many I names.

Yeah.

I should have rethought that a little bit, but it is what it is.

It turned out great.

Okay.

So we prepped a little bit of a game.

We did not give you a heads up on this, so this should be fun.

Okay.

But, uh, you know, we've spent quite a bit of time talking about your, both your COO life and being mom life.

Right.

And so in this game, it's called COO rapid triage.

And we have a few scenarios that we want to run past you and get your take on.

Okay, wait, before you start, Nate.

I just want to note Amanda's reaction to, we didn't prep you on this.

We're going to play a little game.

She's like, great.

Great.

This is great.

Yes.

I'm playing it out.

What did we call it in a previous episode?

Quietly panicking.

Silently panicking.

Yes.

Silently, silently panicking.

That's my line.

Okay.

So scenario one, the warehouse power goes out on October 25th.

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neighborhood cookout but all operations just no i gotta i i still gotta have the cookout we're

still going on with the party and i will still run to work and quickly make sure that that is

happening so i have people down line obviously we would call whoever's closest but definitely

gonna still have the cookout so you're gonna stay at work or stay at home make sure the cookout

starts and call whoever's closest to the warehouse to get them in i'm gonna not cancel

the cookout but drive to work and make sure work is okay yep not cancel but leave

temporarily dismiss myself i'll be right back yep i'll be right back uh i can imagine that when you

leave you wouldn't just be like i'd be right back i'd imagine you'd be like i'll be right back hey

kyle if this happens do this if this happens

absolutely you would tell like four other people like look for this and if this gets low i need you

to fill it if this happens i'm guessing she already has a binder and it's like here's all

the if like scenarios yeah here's the schedule find the right answer yep video chatting kyle

what are you doing honey let's go that is the wrong serving spoon you're supposed to have the

slotted one where are the chips

all right

doesn't have a drink in her hand let's go

all right scenario b a factory in china sent 10 000 costumes with the wrong zipper and the twins

just discovered how to open the childproof cabinets which problem is more solved the zipper

that happened

how did you solve it

i think we had to replace the zippers

or we just so that we you you work on it like okay we just have to update the website and

fix the pictures and still make it sellable

the twins that's have they figured out how to open cabinets yet

no they're starting to like roll roll roll roll so

not yet but ivy ivy the day it's so it's so soon

it's coming

we're at the easy stage yet where they just roll and you have to make sure they're like

not on the bed that they can fall off but pretty soon they're going to be crawling and getting into

everything all right scenario c so it is the morning of the company christmas party in just

a few hours you have more than 200 employees arriving but you just realized that you never

created the new elf on the shelf moment for your kids for the third night in a row so now your kids

are starting to question if it's real

what do you do do you delegate the catering set up for the the party where 200 plus employees

are almost there or do you run home and fix off on the show i have to fix the shell i

have to i can't let the christmas magic go and it's it's funny that you say that like

this year

the boys are obviously isaac's big enough so and not everyone talks about it but indy's

like mom is it real like we're at to the point you're like oh my god is this real is this

real is this real is this real is this real is this real is this real is this real is this

real you have to be like what am i doing and it's just so sad so i'm i'm thankful i have

the boys are like older and then i have the girls too so i like have a a kind of like

a secondary like okay i i got another chance at like make it take two on yeah just making

sure i life is about kids and family and making sure you're like that's what i really enjoy

so i i do have a take two on calming slowing down make sure that my kids have what they

need

So it's absolutely fixing the dumb elf on the shelf for the kids.

The people on the way.

Ultimately, yeah, people on the way.

They can entertain themselves.

We'll get that taken care of.

Exactly.

Just give me 10 minutes here.

They'll understand.

Now, I imagine that you probably do some sort of very elaborate scene

for your elf on the shelf every time.

Do you or no?

You just move it.

Yeah, well, I started so big, and that's a mistake.

You've got to start small so you can get.

Okay, again, I have a second chance at life here with this mom thing.

So the boys are done, and now they're going to be able to help with the girls.

So I have a little bit of a break, and I'm going to start small.

But, yeah, I do like to do the elaborate scenes.

Do you have, like, a Pinterest board?

If you take a Pinterest board, right?

Just an elf on the shelf Pinterest board, like, brainstorming future ideas.

I was going to say, moms that are also leaders at companies,

like, if you don't take anything away, take away,

start small with elf on the shelf.

Absolutely.

It's hard to back that, track that back.

Absolutely.

That's so funny.

Last one, scenario D.

The warehouse scanners go down during the busiest hour of the year,

but your twins just figured out how to.

To use the unlocked TV remote and purchase $400 worth of Disney Plus spinoffs.

Which reboot is most urgent?

The warehouse.

Only because hopefully we can get money back from the twins.

But that's funny you say that Indy actually did that.

No way!

$700 in games.

And he thought, like, you download a game and then you delete it,

and it goes away and you don't get charged.

Well, he did that, like, three times.

I'm like, Indy.

Indy, what in the world?

So I actually had that happen.

But I didn't get any money back either, by the way.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

How much?

He's never done that again.

$700 in Apple games.

Holy crap.

What a smart kid.

He had my, he is too smart.

That's the problem.

And he even thought through and was like, well, if I delete it.

Exactly.

He didn't understand the process.

But I didn't even play the game more than one minute, Mom.

I shouldn't get charged.

I agree with you, buddy, but this is where we're at in life.

He's never done that again.

Wow.

I'm like, okay, so your birthday presents gone.

Your Christmas presents gone the whole year.

You ain't got Christmas.

No, I'm adding chores to your list.

He did chores.

Yeah, he definitely learned even like a $0.99 game.

Mom, can I have this?

Nope.

You still owe me for the last one.

All right.

Well, before we let Amanda go back to running an empire and a nursery, I have to say this.

We talk a lot on this show about like systems, apps, and quote unquote vibe coding your way

through life.

But I feel like what Amanda just gave us is the ultimate masterclass in being type A.

If you think about it, most people live or would look at a dirty pile of rental shoes

as a dead end job.

Instead, Amanda saw it as a logistics puzzle.

She saw a process that could be optimized, a standard that could be raised, and a ladder

that she probably color-coded before going up.

That is the unhinged secret.

Whether you're managing 500 warehouse workers or five kids in a double stroller, the skill

set is the same.

It's the refusal to be the victim of chaos.

So listeners, if you're sitting there in your own clown shoe phase of life right now, overwhelmed,

buried, and wondered if the systems will ever hold, take a page out of Amanda's playbook.

Don't wait for the chaos to stop.

Just become COO of your own madness.

Love that.

Yeah.

And maybe keep the Coors coming.

Absolutely.

Don't forget the olives.

Yes.

Have fun.

Thank you, guys.

I appreciate it.

Thank you so much for letting us chat with you.

That was fun.

We hope you all had as much fun as we did talking with Amanda today.

Yeah.

It's been great.

I had no idea some of these stories would come up, but it was fun picking her brain

as to how she keeps it all running because I had no idea behind the scenes.

That's what she does.

So yeah.

That's impressive.

That was great.

Yeah.

COO and mommy-o.

I love that.

She's the whole thing.

Right?

Yeah.

Well, thanks again to Amanda.

And everyone, make sure you stay type A.

And a little unhinged.

Thankfully, we've been together for, what, 13 years now.

So we're...

Yeah.

Yeah.

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Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Okay.

Bye.

Bye-bye.