1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000 Am I ready? 2 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:01,760 That's the question. 3 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:02,260 Here we go. 4 00:00:15,620 --> 00:00:21,580 Welcome back to Type A Unhinged, the podcast for the architects of order and the masters 5 00:00:21,580 --> 00:00:22,379 of chaos. 6 00:00:23,359 --> 00:00:27,920 Today's guest has built her career at the intersection of brand e-commerce and the kind 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,220 of leadership that actually moves things forward. 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,000 Not just the title, but the stance. 9 00:00:32,460 --> 00:00:35,880 She's built her career moving through some of the most recognizable names in fashion 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:41,740 and beauty, from Too Faced to Pink Lily to Kindred Bravely, and most recently landed 11 00:00:41,740 --> 00:00:47,219 as head of e-commerce at Dermalogica, a global prestige skincare brand with one of the most 12 00:00:47,219 --> 00:00:49,540 interesting multi-channel footprints in the industry. 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,560 She's someone who sat in the director chair wondering why decisions get made and then 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,280 in the C-suite actually making them. 15 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:57,880 And has a lot. 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,219 And has a lot to say about what changes when you cross that line. 17 00:01:01,859 --> 00:01:04,560 Courtney Lear Wallace, welcome to Type A Unhinged. 18 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:08,799 And Courtney, before we dig in, give the people a little more of the real picture, who you 19 00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:11,120 are and what's your world like right now. 20 00:01:11,379 --> 00:01:11,820 Yes. 21 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:13,340 Thank you so much for having me. 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,180 I'm so excited to chat today. 23 00:01:15,359 --> 00:01:16,140 So who am I? 24 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:17,340 That's a big question. 25 00:01:18,099 --> 00:01:20,240 I am an e-commerce nerd. 26 00:01:20,420 --> 00:01:22,439 I've been doing this for 15 years. 27 00:01:23,140 --> 00:01:27,879 My claim to fame is that I started at a time when we were... 28 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:35,120 I was still experimenting with promotions on MySpace and I was this bright-eyed and 29 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,359 bushy-tailed kid out of college barging into the C-suite going, there's this thing called 30 00:01:39,359 --> 00:01:41,680 Facebook Ads Manager and we should really test it. 31 00:01:42,579 --> 00:01:49,740 And so I've been around for a minute and I do think that I love to give that example 32 00:01:49,740 --> 00:01:54,680 or tell that story because I think it's really been a through line in my career that I just 33 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,159 don't know how to mind my business. 34 00:01:56,159 --> 00:01:59,859 Like I am a bit of a busybody and it's how you learn. 35 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:06,019 You stay curious and excited and raising your hand to roll your sleeves up and get into 36 00:02:06,019 --> 00:02:13,900 new things, which is how I feel like I have grown in my career and went from really establishing 37 00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:21,359 social media marketing at a now key social media marketing pillar in the industry at 38 00:02:21,359 --> 00:02:22,039 Hot Topic. 39 00:02:22,039 --> 00:02:25,780 Obviously, the teens, the kids are on the cutting edge. 40 00:02:26,159 --> 00:02:28,960 All of those new platforms and how to engage there. 41 00:02:29,799 --> 00:02:33,400 And from there, I went to a brand that is still very near and dear to my heart. 42 00:02:33,539 --> 00:02:36,800 I just got a package on my doorstep two days ago, Unique Vintage. 43 00:02:37,519 --> 00:02:44,519 I was a fan who, again, busybody, reached out on Facebook that like, hey, I love your 44 00:02:44,519 --> 00:02:47,359 brand so much, but there are some things that you're doing that I think you could be doing 45 00:02:47,359 --> 00:02:47,699 better. 46 00:02:47,879 --> 00:02:48,900 Like, no judgment. 47 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:50,579 Just want to help. 48 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:51,099 No way. 49 00:02:51,099 --> 00:02:52,019 And I got to the C. 50 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,560 Literally, I was not looking for a job. 51 00:02:54,659 --> 00:02:56,139 I had no agenda. 52 00:02:56,159 --> 00:02:59,780 I was just like, this hurts my heart and I love this brand. 53 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:00,780 Please do better. 54 00:03:02,079 --> 00:03:04,960 And it got to the owner and CEO. 55 00:03:05,500 --> 00:03:09,879 And it was just one of those serendipitous moments that like, hey, you're smart and you 56 00:03:09,879 --> 00:03:11,060 are my customer. 57 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,579 And you went to USC and got to have this great experience. 58 00:03:15,579 --> 00:03:21,019 Like, I don't care that you've never actually managed an e-com platform or, you know, only 59 00:03:21,019 --> 00:03:23,780 tangentially kind of dabbled in email. 60 00:03:23,979 --> 00:03:25,639 Like, just come on and we'll figure it out. 61 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:25,719 Yeah. 62 00:03:26,159 --> 00:03:27,340 And it was the best. 63 00:03:27,900 --> 00:03:29,919 It was better than any master's program I ever could have done. 64 00:03:30,060 --> 00:03:31,859 It was the best baptism by fire. 65 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,000 I'm just rolling my sleeves and building that brand with her. 66 00:03:35,639 --> 00:03:38,859 And yeah, I think that's where I really got a taste of being a generalist. 67 00:03:38,859 --> 00:03:40,359 And again, just getting my hands on everything. 68 00:03:41,180 --> 00:03:43,519 And so from there, I was at, you know, Too Faced Cosmetics. 69 00:03:43,699 --> 00:03:44,699 I've done Kendra Bravely. 70 00:03:45,139 --> 00:03:47,400 You know, now I'm at Dermalogica. 71 00:03:47,780 --> 00:03:50,519 And I truly just am so spoiled. 72 00:03:50,759 --> 00:03:53,519 I have been at all these brands that I absolutely love. 73 00:03:54,780 --> 00:03:56,120 And I just really enjoy. 74 00:03:56,159 --> 00:03:56,699 I do what I do. 75 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,259 So that's me. 76 00:03:58,439 --> 00:03:59,599 I'm a nerd at heart. 77 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,039 You know, they say if you do what you love, you never work a day. 78 00:04:03,219 --> 00:04:03,479 Right. 79 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,259 So, yeah, I love just getting into things and learning and experimenting. 80 00:04:07,259 --> 00:04:10,439 And I'm in a place where that spirit really thrives. 81 00:04:11,060 --> 00:04:11,719 So that's me. 82 00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:13,900 All right. 83 00:04:13,900 --> 00:04:16,079 Well, let's kick it off with some questions here. 84 00:04:16,439 --> 00:04:19,219 Dermalogica is a different kind of e-commerce challenge. 85 00:04:20,019 --> 00:04:25,000 You've got the D2C side, Ulta, Sephora, Professional Skin Therapist Channel, Hand in Stone. 86 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:26,000 You're not just running a business. 87 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:26,040 You're not just running a business. 88 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:26,139 You're not just running a business. 89 00:04:26,139 --> 00:04:26,839 You're not just running a website. 90 00:04:27,459 --> 00:04:31,439 What does owning e-commerce actually mean in that kind of multi-channel environment? 91 00:04:31,959 --> 00:04:33,779 It's a difference, right? 92 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:34,819 It is a change. 93 00:04:34,959 --> 00:04:41,180 I went from a stint in, you know, kind of private equity back, like D2C primary players, 94 00:04:41,379 --> 00:04:43,379 where I was bell of the ball, right? 95 00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:49,099 E-com first, all decisions made based on what e-com needs and, you know, everything else 96 00:04:49,099 --> 00:04:50,079 kind of fall in line. 97 00:04:50,219 --> 00:04:53,699 So it's a little bit of a humbling experience. 98 00:04:54,180 --> 00:04:55,819 But, you know, honestly, 99 00:04:55,819 --> 00:05:03,480 jokes aside, it really just highlights how important collaboration is, not only from 100 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:08,600 a business standpoint of kind of understanding, you know, what the other hand is doing at 101 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:14,539 any given time, but also just that relationship building and internal communication, like 102 00:05:14,539 --> 00:05:21,039 really being involved in an org where you don't have a favorite child, right? 103 00:05:21,039 --> 00:05:25,000 It is very innate in the way that we operate. 104 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:33,220 And work together and our e-com baddies teams chat that I created, you know, where we are 105 00:05:33,220 --> 00:05:39,300 all kind of working together for all of our different digital, you know, programs to make 106 00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:42,660 sure, again, that we're having a good time with it and we're communicating. 107 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,480 But it truly is this, we're all moving forward in the same direction and kind of holding 108 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:48,879 hands and trying to figure it out together. 109 00:05:48,879 --> 00:05:54,180 We really want e-com to be the truest vision. 110 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,860 And, you know, kind of content hub and education space for the brand, which also pulls in one 111 00:05:59,860 --> 00:06:04,120 of our other key channels, which is our professional service channel. 112 00:06:04,339 --> 00:06:06,500 So we are professional grade skincare. 113 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,860 The skincare was created in the treatment room. 114 00:06:10,639 --> 00:06:18,139 The product line was born out of we're educating, we're, you know, sending these professional 115 00:06:18,139 --> 00:06:23,519 skincare therapists into the world and they wanted to be armed with Dermalogica product, 116 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:23,920 right? 117 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:24,000 Right. 118 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:33,540 Connecting that education and that authority and that trustworthiness in the space on dot 119 00:06:33,540 --> 00:06:39,040 com and bringing that PST to life on dot com is also really important to us. 120 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,620 We talk a lot about all boats rise, right? 121 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,120 If I'm running a full funnel campaign and that is how they learned about the brand and 122 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,759 they sign up for email on dot com, but they have some Sephora points that they want to 123 00:06:51,759 --> 00:06:52,100 redeem. 124 00:06:52,379 --> 00:06:52,800 Amazing. 125 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:58,980 As long as they are a Dermalogica customer, as long as they are brand loyal, that that's 126 00:06:58,980 --> 00:06:59,860 what's most important. 127 00:07:00,379 --> 00:07:04,780 The challenge then becomes how do you tie all of that back to data, right? 128 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,300 Like how do we really understand who that customer is and where they're bouncing around 129 00:07:09,300 --> 00:07:09,580 to? 130 00:07:10,379 --> 00:07:13,840 And I think that's what a lot of brands are still trying to figure out. 131 00:07:14,460 --> 00:07:14,939 Makes sense. 132 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:21,860 So when you have that many baddies in a channel, if you've got multiple priorities and maybe 133 00:07:21,860 --> 00:07:22,780 they all roll out. 134 00:07:22,819 --> 00:07:27,920 To a company, okay, our rock goal, whatever, whatever you call them, how do you determine 135 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,360 with limited resources, maybe on a dev side or something like that? 136 00:07:31,540 --> 00:07:33,439 Who gets, who gets the ultimate say? 137 00:07:33,759 --> 00:07:34,900 How do you make those decisions? 138 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,520 It's a democracy in the truest sense, right? 139 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:42,139 Like, so there really is a lot of, you know, we joke, like it's like horse trading, right? 140 00:07:42,139 --> 00:07:46,319 Like, okay, well, Ulta moved up their 21 days of beauty event. 141 00:07:46,420 --> 00:07:47,519 We thought it was going to be this month. 142 00:07:47,580 --> 00:07:48,540 Now it's this month. 143 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,000 So we're going to do our friends and family over here. 144 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:52,400 Amazon. 145 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:52,780 What are you doing? 146 00:07:52,780 --> 00:07:54,340 And do we know yet? 147 00:07:54,620 --> 00:08:00,880 And so even just like that example of trying to plan out promotional calendars, the D to 148 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,080 C, you know, brand.com has most flexibility. 149 00:08:03,700 --> 00:08:07,420 So I do think that, you know, we end up being the gymnast of the bunch, right? 150 00:08:07,460 --> 00:08:11,360 Like, where do we need to twist ourselves to, you know, fit in everywhere else. 151 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:18,020 But I think if you really have the spirit of all boats rise, you can trade some dollars, 152 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:18,720 right? 153 00:08:19,100 --> 00:08:22,320 It's thinking in dollars and cents and trying to be as practical. 154 00:08:22,319 --> 00:08:27,819 And not, you want to be protective in the sense that obviously you own your business, 155 00:08:27,819 --> 00:08:31,759 but you don't want it to make a, make it about like, well, if brand.com is succeeding, 156 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:34,200 then I'm good, right? 157 00:08:34,220 --> 00:08:36,740 Because if everyone isn't winning, none of us are winning. 158 00:08:36,899 --> 00:08:44,019 It is a little bit of that bigger picture approach that I think I am in a unique situation 159 00:08:44,019 --> 00:08:49,960 because of my background and because, you know, I've, I've owned a channel, but I've 160 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:51,960 also been in those C-suites. 161 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,160 You know, behind closed doors, big decision-making. 162 00:08:55,220 --> 00:09:00,379 So kind of understanding that and not being so precious about, well, I want to be the 163 00:09:00,379 --> 00:09:00,680 hero. 164 00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:03,860 I want our thing to work the best, right? 165 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,320 It really is that. 166 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,560 Which can sometimes be easy to fall into too. 167 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,580 Like everyone wants their channel to succeed, right? 168 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:10,860 So. 169 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:11,820 Oh, yes. 170 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,160 It's your baby, right? 171 00:09:13,180 --> 00:09:15,500 And it's like, and we're, we're people, right? 172 00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:21,140 So you do get that like sense of pride of like, well, wait, you stepped on my toes and 173 00:09:21,140 --> 00:09:21,980 now I look bad. 174 00:09:21,980 --> 00:09:22,300 Right. 175 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,040 Like you just made my business look bad. 176 00:09:24,140 --> 00:09:25,600 I didn't plan for this, you know? 177 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:26,820 And so it does. 178 00:09:27,260 --> 00:09:32,840 It's one of these like soft skills or one of these things that you can't necessarily 179 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:33,920 map out on paper. 180 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,420 You have to bring it into action in the way you operate. 181 00:09:37,660 --> 00:09:42,920 And especially, you know, being at a director level or owning a channel, you've got to 182 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:43,820 manage up, right? 183 00:09:43,820 --> 00:09:48,540 So if you're close with your peers, if you've got your leadership baddies by your side and 184 00:09:48,540 --> 00:09:51,920 you, you're, you're kind of getting ahead of some of these. 185 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,340 Unknowns, then there's this, okay, we discussed this. 186 00:09:56,740 --> 00:09:57,840 We've got a bogey coming. 187 00:09:58,220 --> 00:09:59,280 Here's our plan. 188 00:09:59,780 --> 00:10:01,980 Here's how we think it's going to pan out. 189 00:10:02,140 --> 00:10:04,340 And this is why it's still best for the business overall. 190 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:08,660 That sounds like kind of at the root of that is reminding everyone that the customer is 191 00:10:08,660 --> 00:10:10,020 brand loyal, not channel loyal. 192 00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:14,520 And so if you bring everyone to the table and you have those constructive, you know, 193 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,080 conversations where you are showing the math that you're sure your channel is going to 194 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,280 suffer X dollars, but look what we're going to get over here. 195 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:21,560 And as a brand, that means. 196 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,220 You know why it's, that's really cool to have. 197 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,600 Um, one thing that stood out to me when you were explaining, uh, your current role is 198 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,820 that you Dermalogica as a brand has both a product line and professional services, and 199 00:10:35,820 --> 00:10:37,720 you play a part in overseeing part of that, right? 200 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:43,700 So one question I have for you is, are there interesting ways that surprised you where 201 00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:48,240 those professional services or brick and mortar has complimented a lot of, you know, the digital 202 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:49,100 strategy or footprint? 203 00:10:50,580 --> 00:10:51,060 Absolutely. 204 00:10:51,580 --> 00:10:52,180 I love that. 205 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,060 I love that question because there, there's a very, a few very key things that it brings 206 00:10:56,060 --> 00:10:56,420 up. 207 00:10:56,620 --> 00:11:03,920 So one, just take kind of taking a step back from a brand level and kind of a brand representation. 208 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,300 One of our brand pillars is human touch. 209 00:11:07,020 --> 00:11:11,680 How do you bring that to life on a digital platform, right? 210 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,900 Like how do you really bring that through a phone screen or computer screen? 211 00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:22,300 And that is something that is very real to us day to day from the content that we've 212 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:22,820 been sharing. 213 00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:25,060 So I think it's really important that we bring forward the assets that we have on site. 214 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:32,180 You know, some things that even, even as basic as every page where we were explaining a product 215 00:11:32,180 --> 00:11:35,020 or service needs to have hands on face. 216 00:11:35,180 --> 00:11:39,440 Like we need to bring forth this idea that like, it is very tactical. 217 00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:40,360 It is very real. 218 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,100 And that there is this like professional on the screen with you. 219 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,840 Um, and then that kind of goes multiple layers deeper. 220 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,220 So we've got kind of the assets. 221 00:11:51,460 --> 00:11:52,300 Um, then we, 222 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:53,400 we also have tools. 223 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,900 We have a skin mapping tool. 224 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,720 Uh, if you go into a Dermalogica treatment room, 225 00:11:58,720 --> 00:11:59,560 the first thing, 226 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,180 um, a professional skin therapist will do is do something called a skin mapping. 227 00:12:04,420 --> 00:12:08,980 So they go through a kind of series of visual scans and questions, 228 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:12,920 um, to really understand your current skin health state and you know, 229 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,680 what your unique skincare needs are. 230 00:12:16,180 --> 00:12:21,460 We have essentially a digital tool to replicate as best we can on the screen, 231 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:22,300 that same type of tool. 232 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,360 Um, so we have that available. 233 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,560 It literally is a camera that like you have to be in a well-lit area and it will pick 234 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:30,800 up. 235 00:12:30,860 --> 00:12:33,460 It's a bit of a humbling experience when the computer is telling you like, 236 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:34,920 oh, I see your dry skin and fine lines. 237 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,520 Um, but it is really helpful. 238 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:42,580 Um, so that is a, a kind of digital representation of that skin mapping experience, 239 00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:43,700 uh, on site. 240 00:12:44,180 --> 00:12:50,540 Um, then what's really important and for us, something that we're really trying to bring 241 00:12:50,540 --> 00:12:51,840 forth even more. 242 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:58,840 We actually have virtual professional skin therapists that are full-time employed for 243 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:06,120 Dermalogica.com that at any time, if you need to chat with someone or even have a virtual skin 244 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,980 consultation that is available. 245 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:09,840 So exactly. 246 00:13:10,540 --> 00:13:18,260 So again, bringing together that like digital experience, but real professionals, real people, 247 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,860 um, is very real for us. 248 00:13:20,860 --> 00:13:22,260 And one of the, 249 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:28,180 one of the reasons it is outside of the fact that it is just a unique, you know, uh, a 250 00:13:28,180 --> 00:13:33,879 differentiator of the brand and in core to our, our brand values and pillars from a very 251 00:13:33,879 --> 00:13:39,980 practical data standpoint, pretty much a fourth of our new customers come from the treatment 252 00:13:39,980 --> 00:13:40,300 room. 253 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:42,760 That's how I found out about Dermalogica. 254 00:13:43,020 --> 00:13:46,980 My first Dermalogica experience was a facial that I got at hand in stone. 255 00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:49,460 It's like, why does my skin feel like a newborn baby? 256 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:50,720 What is this magic? 257 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,120 And it was, 258 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:53,440 Dermalogica, right? 259 00:13:53,660 --> 00:13:54,640 So full circle moment. 260 00:13:54,940 --> 00:14:03,540 I joke that my first day walking into the building for my interview, you could look around the 261 00:14:03,540 --> 00:14:05,840 building and see who had worked there for years. 262 00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:12,720 They like were like angels, just like glowing, like the perfect skin that is in that building. 263 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,500 It really, really works. 264 00:14:16,420 --> 00:14:20,540 Um, and so we know once we get that product in hand and create that cycle, that that's 265 00:14:20,540 --> 00:14:21,660 where our loyalty comes from. 266 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:22,300 It makes my job. 267 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:22,640 It makes my job. 268 00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:23,600 I'm so spoiled. 269 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,379 It makes my job a lot easier, right? 270 00:14:25,379 --> 00:14:29,320 Like when you've got the product to stand on, that really speaks for itself. 271 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,740 It's like, okay, how do I just get it in their hand? 272 00:14:31,740 --> 00:14:34,460 And then I'm selling, you're selling me, you're selling me on the screen. 273 00:14:34,740 --> 00:14:35,240 I've got you. 274 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:35,960 You let me know. 275 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,820 We'll do a little skin mapping sesh. 276 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:38,879 I'll get, I'll get you. 277 00:14:38,879 --> 00:14:39,120 Yeah. 278 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,080 I'll get you what I need. 279 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:46,820 I, uh, I think it's a, my first interaction with Dermalogica was also from a spa on a 280 00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:49,860 facial, but it was like one of my first ones ever. 281 00:14:49,860 --> 00:14:52,120 And I mean, I was in my twenties. 282 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:53,420 Early twenties. 283 00:14:53,540 --> 00:14:54,040 Yeah. 284 00:14:54,140 --> 00:14:55,640 Today I could use that. 285 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:57,780 Well, okay. 286 00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:59,860 Switching topics a little bit here. 287 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:07,100 Um, you've gone from hot topic to unique vintage, to two-faced, to pink lily, to kindred 288 00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:08,540 bravely, to Dermalogica. 289 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,120 Looking back, what did you not know you didn't know? 290 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:14,980 And when did it finally click? 291 00:15:15,340 --> 00:15:20,040 Ooh, this is one that I'm glad I learned really early on. 292 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,280 And I think it's probably going to tie in. 293 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:29,440 To this spirit of collaboration that I, I really take so close to heart is, uh, again, 294 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:35,700 coming into unique vintage, I was pretty fresh to, you know, kind of full funnel e-comm. 295 00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:40,060 It was the first time I had taken on, you know, a site replatform. 296 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:46,540 It was the first time I was really building, you know, CRM flows and we had to build so 297 00:15:46,540 --> 00:15:47,500 much from scratch. 298 00:15:48,460 --> 00:15:52,040 So at unique vintage, one of the, the big projects. 299 00:15:52,039 --> 00:15:58,579 That we recognized pretty early on was that we had, uh, this really kind of custom built 300 00:15:58,579 --> 00:15:59,839 to hell website. 301 00:16:00,279 --> 00:16:05,360 Um, and it was, it was time to like move to, you know, a, a big girl platform. 302 00:16:05,659 --> 00:16:10,299 Just to give my favorite analogy was when we brought in an integration team to start 303 00:16:10,299 --> 00:16:14,279 looking at the code and, you know, how we were going to start to migrate things over. 304 00:16:14,719 --> 00:16:18,079 Um, but just like look of horror on this poor woman's face. 305 00:16:18,139 --> 00:16:19,819 And she's like, it's like. 306 00:16:20,319 --> 00:16:22,019 If you found a baby in the woods. 307 00:16:22,399 --> 00:16:26,679 And it's been raised by wolves and the baby thinks it's a wolf. 308 00:16:27,179 --> 00:16:31,360 It doesn't know that it's a baby like, okay. 309 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,939 So we've got our, we've got our work cut out. 310 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,399 A jungle book situation here. 311 00:16:36,519 --> 00:16:36,879 Literally. 312 00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:37,319 Mowgli. 313 00:16:37,459 --> 00:16:37,699 Yeah. 314 00:16:37,899 --> 00:16:39,620 So it was our Mowgli website. 315 00:16:39,980 --> 00:16:44,000 Um, and we're like, okay, we must, we must refine you dear Mowgli. 316 00:16:44,419 --> 00:16:45,500 We have really good traffic. 317 00:16:45,659 --> 00:16:46,819 We had really good brand loyalty. 318 00:16:47,299 --> 00:16:52,019 Our conversion was abysmal because the site was clunky and slow and had all of these bottlenecks. 319 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,220 And so it's like, okay, the, the best way to handle all of these things in one fell swoop 320 00:16:56,220 --> 00:16:57,500 is to go to a new platform. 321 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,440 So we went through this very difficult, arduous journey of re-platforming. 322 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,120 So it was night and day. 323 00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:05,220 Absolutely beautiful. 324 00:17:05,759 --> 00:17:08,340 The, you know, functionality was where we needed to be. 325 00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:12,980 Filters worked like all of these fancy things that, you know, were such a struggle for us 326 00:17:12,980 --> 00:17:13,340 before. 327 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:18,140 And we got all that up and running ready for conversion rate to double overnight. 328 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,080 And wait, why, why didn't it? 329 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:20,560 What's. 330 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:21,560 Oh, no. 331 00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:23,539 What's wrong? 332 00:17:23,639 --> 00:17:24,740 What did we do wrong? 333 00:17:25,259 --> 00:17:32,480 And I, again, new in my career was so focused on my goal conversion, right? 334 00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:38,220 We've got to increase conversion and so focused on my side of the world that we didn't actually 335 00:17:38,220 --> 00:17:39,200 step back. 336 00:17:39,379 --> 00:17:44,839 I didn't actually step back to think about, well, what's going on in merchandising and 337 00:17:44,839 --> 00:17:46,299 do we have the right product? 338 00:17:46,759 --> 00:17:48,799 And are we seasonally relevant? 339 00:17:49,539 --> 00:17:51,819 And do we have enough stock? 340 00:17:52,579 --> 00:17:57,039 And, you know, oh yeah, we still have to think about our traffic campaigns, even though, 341 00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:00,000 you know, conversion is better, right? 342 00:18:00,099 --> 00:18:01,000 The site's better. 343 00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:09,339 So it's so funny to say out loud now and obvious now, but I did have to learn very early on 344 00:18:09,339 --> 00:18:12,059 in my career that you cannot do it in a silo. 345 00:18:12,259 --> 00:18:18,940 If you do not have the right mix of everything else around it that goes into acquiring a 346 00:18:18,940 --> 00:18:22,019 customer and retaining a customer and building a business. 347 00:18:22,019 --> 00:18:27,980 The basics of operations and stock and seasonality and having the right product and having the 348 00:18:27,980 --> 00:18:32,819 right marketing campaigns going and having the right PR and all those multi-channel pieces, 349 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,259 you cannot flip a switch. 350 00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:38,480 You have to be collaborative. 351 00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:41,879 You have to make sure that you're all on the same page and you're all working towards the 352 00:18:41,879 --> 00:18:46,319 same goal because what should happen at that time is, yeah, the buying team should have 353 00:18:46,319 --> 00:18:52,000 known when we were ready to go and had a new collection, you know, ready to launch. 354 00:18:52,599 --> 00:18:58,819 You know, to tie it all together, increase marketing spend right after the launch. 355 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,140 I know all these things now. 356 00:19:00,619 --> 00:19:01,819 I did not know then. 357 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,480 So kind of related, but, you know, throughout your journey going from primarily owning a 358 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,720 channel, marketing director, et cetera, is there a metric that you felt like you used 359 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,400 to live or die by, but now you're like, wow, that was a distraction. 360 00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:17,539 Now that you have like the full picture, you know, and you're making some of the big calls, 361 00:19:17,599 --> 00:19:18,119 what would it be? 362 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:20,180 Excellent segue. 363 00:19:20,420 --> 00:19:21,000 Conversion, right? 364 00:19:21,259 --> 00:19:21,740 Yeah. 365 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:30,279 Conversion rate is such a dangerous metric for .com because it's a ratio, right? 366 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:35,220 And it is one kind of litmus for many things that are happening. 367 00:19:35,819 --> 00:19:43,539 So to live and die by conversion rate is to kind of cut off a lot of the other things that 368 00:19:43,539 --> 00:19:45,839 really play into that. 369 00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:46,900 So perfect example. 370 00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:51,720 And another one where I had to manage up and really kind of tell this story, you know, 371 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,880 to a C-suite of like, yes, yes, conversion rate is down. 372 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,120 It's down 20% here on fire. 373 00:19:57,259 --> 00:19:57,819 What is wrong? 374 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:58,819 Something's wrong with the site. 375 00:19:58,940 --> 00:19:59,600 Something's broken. 376 00:20:00,059 --> 00:20:00,720 Well, wait, wait, wait. 377 00:20:01,779 --> 00:20:03,039 Traffic's up 40. 378 00:20:03,860 --> 00:20:06,380 So that's still a net positive, right? 379 00:20:06,519 --> 00:20:10,759 And we have just launched this really big kind of top of funnel campaign. 380 00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:13,220 We're going to get more unqualified traffic. 381 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,079 This is how the cycle works. 382 00:20:15,259 --> 00:20:19,500 You know, not every customer coming to the site is ready to buy in that moment. 383 00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:20,640 Do you want that? 384 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:21,140 That's right. 385 00:20:21,140 --> 00:20:26,860 And you know, do you want a 20% increase in conversion? 386 00:20:27,020 --> 00:20:31,800 Because sure, we could, we could cut off all this top of funnel traffic and get you a really 387 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,080 shiny conversion rate. 388 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:35,700 But what does revenue look like? 389 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:37,280 What does LTV look like? 390 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,880 So yeah, conversion rate, conversion rate is a really good health metric. 391 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,620 It's a really good canary in the coal mine, right? 392 00:20:45,620 --> 00:20:50,360 But you have to then really understand what is driving it. 393 00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:55,220 To goal yourself solely on conversion is to miss out on the big picture. 394 00:20:56,020 --> 00:20:57,340 You need conversion and context. 395 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:58,940 Love that. 396 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:00,460 I like that. 397 00:21:00,540 --> 00:21:01,260 Put it on a pillow. 398 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,260 Even, even less of a tell. 399 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,620 Like it's so easily distracting. 400 00:21:08,140 --> 00:21:15,880 So when you're looking at that for like email and SMS, maybe valid, like did the message 401 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:16,460 resonate? 402 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,700 Was the content in there correct? 403 00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:20,240 But at the same time, like. 404 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:25,660 They came to the site and they're already a customer of ours, or at least they're engaged 405 00:21:25,660 --> 00:21:30,259 enough to be on the list and they didn't purchase like, okay, there's something else wrong. 406 00:21:30,339 --> 00:21:31,339 That's just a distraction. 407 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:31,740 Yeah. 408 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:32,079 You know? 409 00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:33,299 Well, and it's funny too. 410 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,700 I feel like click-through rate is similar from a conversion standpoint, right? 411 00:21:36,759 --> 00:21:42,079 I can give you a killer click-through rate if I send to 20 people that are really engaged, 412 00:21:42,279 --> 00:21:42,519 right? 413 00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:43,059 Right. 414 00:21:43,279 --> 00:21:47,839 Until I have 20 best customers who open every email, I'll give you a hundred percent click 415 00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:48,579 rate guaranteed. 416 00:21:49,079 --> 00:21:49,519 Yeah. 417 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:49,960 But. 418 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:50,880 Scale. 419 00:21:51,079 --> 00:21:51,720 But your revenue. 420 00:21:52,019 --> 00:21:52,120 Right. 421 00:21:52,220 --> 00:21:52,700 Exactly. 422 00:21:53,259 --> 00:21:53,740 Exactly. 423 00:21:54,980 --> 00:22:02,900 So we were talking earlier before, uh, before the pod and you had talked about a moment 424 00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:09,220 at Two-Faced where there was this go, no-go meeting and everyone was laying out their 425 00:22:09,220 --> 00:22:14,000 pros and cons, but nobody was really making the call and you had spoke up. 426 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:15,900 What made you do it? 427 00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:17,599 What made you speak up in that moment? 428 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,059 And what did that teach you about? 429 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,700 Leadership and, and maybe like your style of leadership? 430 00:22:23,980 --> 00:22:24,200 Yeah. 431 00:22:24,859 --> 00:22:26,559 Remember when I told you I was a busybody? 432 00:22:28,559 --> 00:22:29,200 I do. 433 00:22:29,319 --> 00:22:30,220 I start making tick marks. 434 00:22:30,220 --> 00:22:30,700 Yeah, exactly. 435 00:22:30,700 --> 00:22:34,400 I just like, just check all the times that Courtney, uh, jumped out of her lane. 436 00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:40,319 Uh, no, I think, you know, I, I, I remember, it's funny that, that we talked about that 437 00:22:40,319 --> 00:22:46,380 because, um, I actually met with an old coworker for brunch recently and we're talking about 438 00:22:46,380 --> 00:22:50,160 our careers and, you know, I guess. 439 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,079 This is what we do at brunch, talk about careers and like leadership, uh, qualities, but that's 440 00:22:54,079 --> 00:22:54,680 what we were doing. 441 00:22:55,099 --> 00:23:00,880 Um, and she actually brought up this, this incident, this, you know, I didn't even remember 442 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:01,660 that this happened. 443 00:23:01,819 --> 00:23:04,960 Like when she brought it up, I was like, oh yeah, I do remember that. 444 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:13,500 Um, but I think it kind of just goes to show that true leadership comes from kind of seizing 445 00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:14,700 the moment, right? 446 00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:20,039 Like reading the room and understanding that a leader isn't necessarily. 447 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:20,220 Yeah. 448 00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:22,460 The highest title in the room, right? 449 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,180 Um, a leader should always be invested. 450 00:23:25,299 --> 00:23:32,019 They should always have skin in the game, but sometimes a room is truly looking for 451 00:23:32,019 --> 00:23:34,440 someone to make that first step. 452 00:23:35,180 --> 00:23:38,440 There was this moment where it's like, okay, I can feel it. 453 00:23:38,579 --> 00:23:40,420 Like I'm, I'm anxious. 454 00:23:40,420 --> 00:23:44,319 I'm like, I want to jump in here because I'm like, it's on the tip of our tongues guys. 455 00:23:44,319 --> 00:23:47,620 And we just need, we all need, someone needs to say it out loud. 456 00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:49,740 It really is this. 457 00:23:49,740 --> 00:23:50,079 I, 458 00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:56,700 I value your opinions and what you are bringing to the room, but we've all got to, we've got 459 00:23:56,700 --> 00:24:01,279 to gather all those things and now make a decision and go in a direction. 460 00:24:02,380 --> 00:24:08,460 Um, and I think a lot of times that is, that is really just the, that confidence, that 461 00:24:08,460 --> 00:24:14,120 vote of confidence that, that people need to feel even better and more resolved about 462 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:14,900 what they already know. 463 00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:19,740 Nate and I, when we were working together, we had a coworker who, 464 00:24:20,220 --> 00:24:26,680 not in a team meeting setting, but, um, a little bit after I was during a busy season. 465 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:32,519 So it was, you know, almost like a 24 seven work day had individually stopped a couple 466 00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:39,460 of our C-suite and told, I told them how he felt about a particular situation and operations. 467 00:24:40,460 --> 00:24:44,600 And the next morning he comes in and tells us, guys, I think I made a mistake. 468 00:24:45,220 --> 00:24:46,259 That was his wording. 469 00:24:46,759 --> 00:24:50,100 But when, because he did that, because he wasn't afraid. 470 00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:53,180 He wasn't afraid to say like, we just need to make a decision one way or the other. 471 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:54,980 Like, I don't even care. 472 00:24:55,100 --> 00:24:57,380 This is just killing us all going back and forth. 473 00:24:57,620 --> 00:25:00,980 We had a meeting with everybody in the C-suite and directors. 474 00:25:00,980 --> 00:25:03,100 And it was like, Hey, what do you guys think? 475 00:25:03,180 --> 00:25:04,120 Which way do we need to go? 476 00:25:04,279 --> 00:25:07,019 And by the end of that meeting, a choice was made conversation. 477 00:25:07,660 --> 00:25:08,019 Yeah. 478 00:25:08,180 --> 00:25:14,299 And that's an excellent example because sometimes leadership is just getting everyone in the 479 00:25:14,299 --> 00:25:14,920 same room. 480 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,779 Can we all just, can we all just say the quiet part out loud? 481 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,200 Like we're all complaining about this thing behind the scenes. 482 00:25:20,220 --> 00:25:22,039 We all know that there's an issue. 483 00:25:22,339 --> 00:25:24,600 Like how do we just hash it out and resolve it? 484 00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:32,360 That's a good pivot to kind of like your C-suite role when you were at Kindred Bravely. 485 00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:38,299 And you kind of finally got to understand why the decisions were being made versus just 486 00:25:38,299 --> 00:25:39,720 here's the decision execute. 487 00:25:40,339 --> 00:25:45,339 So you had that CFO view, the COO view and that P&L reality. 488 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,519 What's the thing directors and VPs are most wrong about? 489 00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:50,160 When? 490 00:25:50,220 --> 00:25:52,460 That they're frustrated with leadership above them. 491 00:25:52,660 --> 00:25:55,539 Ooh, that's a good question. 492 00:25:56,940 --> 00:26:01,980 I won't even go as far to say that they're wrong. 493 00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:04,940 They are likely ill-informed. 494 00:26:05,860 --> 00:26:12,180 And I think that that honestly is more on the C-suite than it is on the director VP 495 00:26:12,180 --> 00:26:12,600 level. 496 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:19,579 Like the best orgs have that transparency and that two-way conversation. 497 00:26:19,579 --> 00:26:20,059 Okay. 498 00:26:20,220 --> 00:26:27,140 And when you have your, your troops questioning your leadership, like there's a whole slew 499 00:26:27,140 --> 00:26:29,539 of problems that come downstream from that. 500 00:26:29,620 --> 00:26:29,940 Right. 501 00:26:29,940 --> 00:26:32,200 So, you know, no org is perfect. 502 00:26:32,420 --> 00:26:38,579 I'm not even going to say that I got it right all of the time, but this idea that you do 503 00:26:38,579 --> 00:26:44,980 have this purview and you have this, this lived experience of like, well, what, what 504 00:26:44,980 --> 00:26:49,220 would I have really wanted to know in this scenario, in this situation? 505 00:26:49,220 --> 00:26:56,339 And using that to then filter down what it could obviously with C-suite, there's a lot 506 00:26:56,339 --> 00:27:03,100 of confidential stuff too, but there is definitely a, a, a way you can communicate to get everyone 507 00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:07,420 again, everyone on the same bandwagon, everyone on the same page, moving in the same direction 508 00:27:07,420 --> 00:27:14,120 because I've never been a leader that is like, do this because I said, so I'd say this to 509 00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:14,960 my team all the time. 510 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,319 And I say it jokingly, but I'm like, tell me if I'm being crazy. 511 00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:18,240 Am I being crazy? 512 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,200 Like, is this insane? 513 00:27:19,579 --> 00:27:20,819 Like, am I calming up? 514 00:27:20,980 --> 00:27:21,120 Yeah. 515 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,319 Call me out literally. 516 00:27:22,579 --> 00:27:26,120 And so we do, we, we have, that's how I build this rapport and I built this relationship 517 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:26,860 with my teams. 518 00:27:27,140 --> 00:27:30,579 Um, but it's because I've had my hand in all of it. 519 00:27:30,759 --> 00:27:33,000 I, I say, I say this to my team all the time. 520 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,480 I'm like, I I've done all of your jobs. 521 00:27:35,839 --> 00:27:41,360 So like, I, I will never ask you to do something that I wouldn't have done if I were in your 522 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:45,279 place, but you tell me if there is something I'm missing, right. 523 00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:48,000 Do I have a blind spot about current priorities? 524 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,200 And you've got this other. 525 00:27:49,220 --> 00:27:53,420 Project that you're drowning in that, you know, you've been behind the scenes about 526 00:27:53,420 --> 00:27:56,019 and now I'm piling something else on like, Whoa, okay. 527 00:27:56,019 --> 00:28:00,779 Let's have a conversation about priorities and what is going to be most impactful to 528 00:28:00,779 --> 00:28:01,400 the business. 529 00:28:01,660 --> 00:28:04,420 Do you really encourage that, that two-way conversation? 530 00:28:04,420 --> 00:28:10,120 Because I, I have people on my team who are smarter than me about things, right? 531 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:12,759 Like I like to joke that I'm, I'm a generalist. 532 00:28:12,819 --> 00:28:15,900 So I know enough to be dangerous about a lot of things. 533 00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:16,880 I love that. 534 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:18,980 You tell them the why. 535 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,220 But it's also like. 536 00:28:21,460 --> 00:28:21,620 Crucial. 537 00:28:21,620 --> 00:28:26,980 But then also the what am I missing is that second piece that I don't think everybody 538 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:27,759 does? 539 00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:28,240 Right? 540 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,819 And maybe they're afraid of what they're gonna hear. 541 00:28:30,819 --> 00:28:31,640 I'm not sure. 542 00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:36,680 But it's important to, I think, be vulnerable to in that leadership. 543 00:28:37,539 --> 00:28:41,240 When we're win when we win, we all win, when we lose, we all. 544 00:28:42,620 --> 00:28:45,620 when we lose, we all learn the phrase of the episode. 545 00:28:45,620 --> 00:28:46,920 I was just going to say that, 546 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:49,000 yeah, 547 00:28:49,220 --> 00:28:50,360 Changing topics again. 548 00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:50,960 There's so many. 549 00:28:51,039 --> 00:28:52,839 I feel like we could talk to you for hours, Courtney. 550 00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:54,000 Seriously. 551 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:54,640 I'd love to, yeah. 552 00:28:54,740 --> 00:28:56,039 So don't threaten me with a good time. 553 00:28:56,460 --> 00:28:57,100 All right. 554 00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:05,160 So in chatting with you previously, I know female leadership is very near and dear to your heart. 555 00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:10,579 Healthy boundaries, encouraging other women and moms in the workplace. 556 00:29:10,579 --> 00:29:18,620 Kendra bravely normalized toddlers in the background you mentioned and going off camera for pumping even. 557 00:29:19,220 --> 00:29:25,039 So what does a workplace that actually supports women look like versus one that just says it does? 558 00:29:25,259 --> 00:29:26,039 I love that. 559 00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:26,920 Yeah. 560 00:29:27,079 --> 00:29:33,900 I mean, Kendra bravely really was just this like little mom utopia in my stint there. 561 00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:40,819 You know, really true to the brand, you know, founded on this idea that, you know, it's for moms by moms. 562 00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:47,380 And so it really was unique. 563 00:29:47,380 --> 00:30:07,440 And I think it helped to really instill in me that so much about women and mothers in particular being successful in the workforce really comes down to some pretty fundamental things like flexibility, first and foremost, and trust. 564 00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:14,560 So, you know, for me, I talk to, you know, talk about this with my team all the time. 565 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,100 Like we all have lives. 566 00:30:16,460 --> 00:30:16,900 We love. 567 00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:18,000 We love our job. 568 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,320 We love what we do. 569 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,120 But we are selling skin care and not saving lives. 570 00:30:22,740 --> 00:30:23,020 Right. 571 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:35,600 So at the end of the day, yeah, you're you're a sick toddler or your mom who's been in the hospital a couple days extra than you thought she was going to. 572 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,880 But, you know, you can be open and honest with me about what you need. 573 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:46,900 And even if that need is like, hey, my baby was. 574 00:30:47,380 --> 00:30:51,800 Screaming, teething all last night and I'm not 100 percent today. 575 00:30:52,060 --> 00:30:53,340 Like I've been there. 576 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:54,580 I get it. 577 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:55,940 What do you need? 578 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:56,680 What can we do? 579 00:30:56,820 --> 00:30:59,220 What meetings do we have that are non-negotiable today? 580 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:00,500 What what can we shift? 581 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:01,300 Right. 582 00:31:01,300 --> 00:31:04,460 And I can tell you from experience that those. 583 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:16,540 Team members are the ones that as you really have that genuine interest and care in their life, as you really support them with flexibility and understanding. 584 00:31:17,380 --> 00:31:21,940 Those are the ones that give you one hundred and ten percent because and that's what moms do. 585 00:31:21,940 --> 00:31:22,280 Right. 586 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,360 We already operate at one hundred and ten percent. 587 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,000 Like we're doing all the things. 588 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:46,640 So this idea that, oh, you're somehow giving less to your role or less to your company or less to your contributions because you need a little bit of flexibility every now and then you've got to go to kindergarten graduation or you had a rough night with a teething infant is is absolutely asinine. 589 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:47,300 Like it's. 590 00:31:47,380 --> 00:31:48,440 Going to get done. 591 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,040 And that's where the trust comes in. 592 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:50,360 Right. 593 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:56,700 So it's like if you're if I give you the flexibility that you need, I know that you are going to come back tenfold. 594 00:31:56,900 --> 00:31:57,200 Right. 595 00:31:57,220 --> 00:31:59,480 Like you're you're dedicated to the brand. 596 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:00,160 You're dedicated. 597 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:08,300 You know, you have that that appreciation for me as a leader where you want to show up and you want to do your best. 598 00:32:08,940 --> 00:32:13,040 And at the end of the day, at the end of the literal week, as long as you get it all done. 599 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:14,600 I don't care. 600 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:16,580 You know. 601 00:32:16,579 --> 00:32:17,559 Isn't that the truth? 602 00:32:17,839 --> 00:32:20,019 In the best way possible. 603 00:32:20,359 --> 00:32:22,059 Like, truly, truly. 604 00:32:22,779 --> 00:32:25,259 It is that you're you're an adult. 605 00:32:25,819 --> 00:32:29,419 You have life that you need to balance and we all need to get it done. 606 00:32:30,419 --> 00:32:35,659 I think long term to the company benefits, not just like you said, they're going to give you back tenfold. 607 00:32:35,759 --> 00:32:35,960 Right. 608 00:32:36,220 --> 00:32:39,659 But also you're building loyalty. 609 00:32:40,439 --> 00:32:40,699 Yes. 610 00:32:40,699 --> 00:32:43,379 So those folks are going to stay around longer. 611 00:32:44,139 --> 00:32:46,559 And they're going to put those extra hours. 612 00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:56,119 And when it's needed in those like cyber weeks, more engaged and think about like employee turnover, especially at a higher level, how much that costs the company. 613 00:32:56,339 --> 00:33:03,940 If you're there for five plus years, you have a lot of internal knowledge and trying to train somebody up on that for five years or more. 614 00:33:04,019 --> 00:33:06,019 Like that's going to take a long time. 615 00:33:06,740 --> 00:33:08,940 So, yeah, having that is. 616 00:33:09,079 --> 00:33:13,440 Yeah, it just it boggles my mind when people are rigid about that. 617 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,559 And it's like this is an hour out of a week. 618 00:33:15,819 --> 00:33:16,079 Exactly. 619 00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:17,619 It's a great wrap up. 620 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:19,639 All right. 621 00:33:20,059 --> 00:33:23,359 We have a type a rapid fire round. 622 00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:26,759 This will be quick and hopefully painless. 623 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:27,119 OK. 624 00:33:28,099 --> 00:33:29,720 I'm not good at being succinct. 625 00:33:29,839 --> 00:33:31,359 I don't know if this last hour is. 626 00:33:31,940 --> 00:33:33,039 Oh, you don't need to be succinct. 627 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:34,679 That's wrong. 628 00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:37,379 It's really an A or a B. 629 00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:39,319 Oh, which which are you? 630 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:39,579 OK. 631 00:33:39,980 --> 00:33:42,159 So we'll start with an easy one. 632 00:33:42,159 --> 00:33:43,099 All right. 633 00:33:43,379 --> 00:33:45,899 Inbox zero or inbox ten thousand. 634 00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:47,259 Which do you subscribe to? 635 00:33:47,340 --> 00:33:47,960 Ten thousand. 636 00:33:48,580 --> 00:33:50,400 Unfortunately, it's a mess. 637 00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:56,860 I love that one because everybody type A wants to be in such a goal. 638 00:33:57,100 --> 00:33:58,000 But it's not going to. 639 00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:00,360 It's truly a pipe dream at this point. 640 00:34:00,460 --> 00:34:02,360 Like, I wish I could be her. 641 00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:03,000 I am not. 642 00:34:06,860 --> 00:34:07,300 OK. 643 00:34:07,460 --> 00:34:08,519 You have a journalism degree. 644 00:34:08,780 --> 00:34:11,099 Best thing it taught you that had nothing to do with journalism. 645 00:34:11,519 --> 00:34:12,460 Just how to talk to people. 646 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,680 Like so much of journalism is like interviewing. 647 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:15,780 Yeah. 648 00:34:15,780 --> 00:34:15,840 Yeah. 649 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:15,880 Yeah. 650 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,900 Like asking follow up questions and being personable and like sneaking yourself into 651 00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:23,340 rooms like those are the soft skills that they don't necessarily teach you in class, 652 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,220 but you really learn through practice. 653 00:34:26,559 --> 00:34:29,599 And it is that like, you know, that that carrot. 654 00:34:29,820 --> 00:34:30,019 Right. 655 00:34:30,099 --> 00:34:34,019 Oh, I can I can flash my little journalism pass and just like get backstage over here. 656 00:34:34,139 --> 00:34:40,440 I can, you know, like get the best pull quotes, like just by being really engaged in a conversation. 657 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:45,099 Like those are the soft skills that you you learn in those scenarios. 658 00:34:45,099 --> 00:34:45,840 And I have taken that. 659 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,960 I have taken with me through many non-journalistic endeavors. 660 00:34:50,460 --> 00:34:52,820 So, Courtney, this is how you learn to be a busy bunny. 661 00:34:53,180 --> 00:34:53,579 Literally. 662 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:54,800 Yes. 663 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,100 We're talking all back. 664 00:34:56,220 --> 00:34:57,860 I don't know if I'd ever made that connection. 665 00:34:58,100 --> 00:34:59,300 But yeah, chicken or the egg. 666 00:34:59,340 --> 00:34:59,600 Right. 667 00:35:00,380 --> 00:35:00,600 Right. 668 00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:01,579 OK. 669 00:35:01,579 --> 00:35:05,460 So, a decision gets made in the room or gets made over Slack. 670 00:35:05,740 --> 00:35:07,039 Which do you trust more? 671 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,980 Big decisions in the room, little decisions on Slack. 672 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:14,320 Fair enough. 673 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:14,519 Yep. 674 00:35:14,620 --> 00:35:15,019 Good call. 675 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,400 OK, AI is a tool, not a job replacement. 676 00:35:18,660 --> 00:35:21,840 What's one thing you've actually used it for that saved you real time? 677 00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:24,760 Claude is my homeboy. 678 00:35:27,019 --> 00:35:30,900 I'm not even trying to like be coy about it anymore. 679 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:38,160 We refer to Claude as like our unseen man on the court. 680 00:35:39,260 --> 00:35:44,840 One or two either quick framework for a PowerPoint when you've got all the information. 681 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:45,400 I'm like, OK, I just need to get this done. 682 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,019 I just need to get five slides on this. 683 00:35:47,019 --> 00:35:48,160 Like, help me. 684 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:48,440 Yes. 685 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,220 And spits out the five slides and you still got to finagle it. 686 00:35:51,220 --> 00:35:51,519 Right. 687 00:35:51,519 --> 00:35:53,860 But like, that is such a time saver. 688 00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:58,400 Or similarly, the executive summary. 689 00:35:58,720 --> 00:35:59,079 Right. 690 00:35:59,079 --> 00:36:02,920 Like, we've got all these reports, we've got all these really detailed postmortems about 691 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,079 what just happened with the event and all the data that we're, you know, pouring over. 692 00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:12,680 And how do I get 30,000 feet up and just give the highlights to the C-suite? 693 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:13,720 Executive summary. 694 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:15,280 Harkins back to it. 695 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,260 A previous podcast where many times it was brought up, the AI is the intern. 696 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:19,960 Yes. 697 00:36:20,340 --> 00:36:23,200 So everyone's, yep, on that. 698 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:23,560 OK. 699 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,080 Someone on your team is excellent at their job, but won't stick their neck out. 700 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:29,740 Do you coach it or accept it? 701 00:36:30,380 --> 00:36:30,880 Coach it. 702 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,460 And I've had this many times. 703 00:36:34,460 --> 00:36:42,660 And I do think it comes down to understanding what that team member's ultimate goals are. 704 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,260 Encouraging them that that's what's going to get them there. 705 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:46,920 So I love to coach that. 706 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:48,660 All right. 707 00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:53,180 Well, Courtney, this was exactly the kind of conversation that we love to have on Type A Unhinged. 708 00:36:53,580 --> 00:36:55,320 It's real stuff, not a highlight reel. 709 00:36:55,980 --> 00:37:00,400 The two-faced boardroom, what actually happens when you step into the C-suite, 710 00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:05,140 why are your customers loyal to your brand and not necessarily your channel? 711 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,580 There's a lot more here that I think we could get into. 712 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,240 Like I said, I feel like we could talk for hours and everybody would get something out of it. 713 00:37:12,420 --> 00:37:14,660 So if you want to follow Courtney's journey, 714 00:37:14,659 --> 00:37:15,679 connect with her. 715 00:37:15,879 --> 00:37:17,519 We'll have links in the show notes. 716 00:37:18,119 --> 00:37:21,659 Courtney, if you want, you can share your LinkedIn real quick. 717 00:37:21,859 --> 00:37:22,359 Yeah, absolutely. 718 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:23,299 It's Courtney Lear Wallace. 719 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,019 I think it's just linkedin.com backslash Courtney Lear Wallace. 720 00:37:27,859 --> 00:37:28,239 There you go. 721 00:37:28,399 --> 00:37:31,699 And to our listeners, if this episode made you think differently about something, 722 00:37:31,839 --> 00:37:34,619 share it with someone who definitely needs to hear it. 723 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,779 And until then, stay Type A. 724 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:38,500 And a little unhinged. 725 00:37:44,659 --> 00:37:52,420 Thanks for listening to Type A Unhinged. 726 00:37:52,679 --> 00:37:54,579 Now it's time to get to work. 727 00:37:55,159 --> 00:37:58,719 Make sure to hit subscribe so you never miss a system update. 728 00:37:59,440 --> 00:37:59,920 Cool. 729 00:38:00,539 --> 00:38:01,019 Awesome. 730 00:38:01,379 --> 00:38:02,940 Well, I came camera ready just in case. 731 00:38:03,099 --> 00:38:07,039 This is way less pressure than a couple of weeks ago. 732 00:38:07,099 --> 00:38:11,519 I did a podcast and it was live, like LinkedIn live. 733 00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:14,359 So I was like, oh, hopefully I don't say anything. 734 00:38:14,659 --> 00:38:19,440 A scandalo, because it is just out there in the world now. 735 00:38:20,859 --> 00:38:24,440 That honestly is one of the things that I love about Dermalogica. 736 00:38:24,759 --> 00:38:28,839 It really is my Goldilocks org. 737 00:38:29,460 --> 00:38:33,000 We are encouraged to fail, break it, and then tell us what you learned 738 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,940 and tell us how we're going to get better. 739 00:38:35,199 --> 00:38:37,980 And that is what just gets my little heart pumping. 740 00:38:37,980 --> 00:38:38,599 So.